D&D General Curbing Guidance after all these years

[VashVet]

In the other hand, I don’t know about y’all, but to me I hate having to be that DM who every time a player wants to use the feature they specifically chose for their build over other available options says “ um, technically that doesn’t work in this situation.” If it happens once or twice, fine, but if it happens regularly it just ends up feeling adversarial. Philosophically, I think it’s better to be on the lookout for reasons the players’ abilities could work than reasons they couldn’t.

Yes, totally, and that’s part of why I dislike this spell. I have to be the one to keep it in check, and rain on everyone’s parade.

 

[Voadam]

As for the RAW aspects being a lot to remember, I think the duration after casting is the biggest factor to remember. Most skill things are going to be more than a minute or reactive. I think this mostly cuts it down to a few specific uses. "Lord bless this jump, amen." "Lord bless this lockpickers hands, amen." "Lord bless this trapspringer's hands, amen." It seems to mostly be a help the thief spell in practice.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Too bad the DM just allows it. I generally allow it in a known big moment preparation capacity. That would be obnoxious though if guidance was getting thrown around for small-deeds, spamming style.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

It kind of reminds me of how goofy the "help" action can be and how that can be spammed too.

 

[Stalker0]

No ruleset is immaturity-proof. But if the DM sticks to a logical set of criteria, the player should eventually learn when guidance is going to fly and when it's not. If they don't, then you have bigger problems and should consider not playing with that person, or at least not allowing them to play clerics.

I recognize I am just continuing to push my houserule, but honestly I feel like I completely nipped that issue in the bud. No decision making,

 

[jayoungr]

I recognize I am just continuing to push my houserule, but honestly I feel like I completely nipped that issue in the bud. No decision making,

And if that works better for your table, then you made the right choice.

 

[Stalker0]

And if that works better for your table, then you made the right choice.

Right but my point was a counter to your agument that nothing is immaturity-proof, and as a DM you just have to train your players.

You don't....you can just make a rule where that kind of adjucation is not necessary.

 

[jayoungr]

Right but my point was a counter to your agument that nothing is immaturity-proof, and as a DM you just have to train your players.

You don't....you can just make a rule where that kind of adjucation is not necessary.

I don't mean to say or imply that there is only one solution to the problem. I'm saying that the rule itself is not necessarily inherently broken. But if the DM doesn't feel like training the player or thinks the player will not respond well to that kind of approach, then you can certainly take the more drastic step of implementing a houserule.

I guess I am pushing back to some degree to your implication that there is no way to run the rule as written and that the houserule is the only way to handle it.

 

[NotAYakk]

Guidance
Reaction to a creature other than you making an attribute check
Range: 30 feet
Components: V S

You ask your divine patron to help an ally. As a reaction, you sacrifice a hit die, and the target gains a 1d4 bonus to the triggering attribute check, possibly turning a failure into a success. The target of the effect may choose to sacrifice a hit die to refund your lost hit die.

At higher levels: Starting at level 5, the target gains temporary HP equal to one roll of the sacrificed HD. Starting at level 11, the roll of the bonus die also increases the temporary HP, and at level 17 the roll of the bonus die becomes 1d6.

Resistance
Reaction to a creature other than you failing a saving throw
Range: 30 feet
Components: V S

You ask your divine patron to protect an ally. As a reaction, you sacrifice a hit die, and the target gains a 1d4 bonus to the triggering saving throw, possibly turning a failure into a success. The target of the effect may choose to sacrifice a hit die to refund your lost hit die.

At higher levels: Starting at level 5, no HD is sacrificed if the saving throw still fails. At level 11, the bonus roll becomes 1d6, and at level 17 1d8.

...

How is that for less-spammed cantrips?

Well, for Resistance, it is going to be more used. But nobody used it in my experience.

The HD cost is intended to be modest. By making the Cleric commit their own HD, and then giving the target the option of saving the HD, the Cleric should be cautious about using it.

Both are "someone else". These Cantrips don't boost your own abilities.

For Guidance, I didn't want to break bounded accuracy. So I made it turn the lost HD into temporary HP (which keeps HP budget on-track), then granted a few extra HP and only then made the die larger at T4. If you spam it at one target these temporary HP don't stack, so it is less efficient. If you use it only sometimes, it acts as a little blessing from the divine patron.

Used modestly it shouldn't cause a HP deficit due to the temporary HP.

The Resistance doesn't get temporary HP for a few reasons. First, they are likely to be about to take damage; the temporary HP become healing. Instead I made the die grow larger. I find saving throws are more swingy than skill checks.

"You don't waste the HD if the check still fails" saves on "ok, how much did you miss by" time waste, so I put that upgrade early; it increases game throughput. For level 1-4 a bit of caution seems fine.

Resistance is triggered by failng the saving throw to make it clear that it isn't auto-wasted on a success. Attribute/skill checks often have a less obvious "pass/fail" number in my experience, so I avoided that mechanic.

 

[Li Shenron]

Personally, I would think the best defense against spamming guidance would be not calling for so many skill checks that spamming is an option anyway.

This is part of the problem and the reason why I consider it bad game design: throwing away the baby with the dirty water.