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Custom magical items

B4cchus

First Post
Copy from GD thread:

On a whole different note:
How do we regard custom magical item creation here in LEW?
The reason i am asking this, is that i'm thinking of taking the craft wondrous item feat as the next feat for my character Findoram.
The DMG/SRD rules are pretty clear about this, but i thought i'd bring it up before i take the feat.
I'd like to know in whch regard i am limited to crafting off the standard list of items.

I, myself, see three possible scenario's:
1: limit to the standard list.
2: item proposal for each new custom item
3: anything goes as long as it follows the rules as per the SRD for item creation.

Should i put up a seperate (proposal?) thread for this?

Greetz,
B4cchus.
 

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El Jefe

First Post
My take on this:

1. So long as the SRD prerequisites are met, any SRD-standard item can be created.
2. Anything not on the list has to be an approved item per the LEW rules thread. Meaning, if you want to make something not listed there, or you want to make something that is listed that doesn't spell out the prereqs, then you need a proposal thread to do that first.

This also means that DMs can add special items to the game without going through all of the above. But it must be clear that DM specials are one-shot items, and that nobody can recreate them without a proposal thread out of game and research in-game.
 

B4cchus

First Post
My main concern with he standard list is the (imho ridiculously high) minimum CL for item creation.
for instance: and anbility enhancer +2 requires CL 8. The spell used is a 2nd level spell, the feat craft wondrous item has min CL 3. A level 3 cleric/wizard meets all the requirements as per custom item creation rules, but the standard list somehow dictates a minimum CL of 8.
The custom item rules say nothing about minimum CL except that you must be able to cast the spell (or someone else does it for you), the standard list strangly deviates from this.

This makes the feat (craft wondrous item)useless below lvl 5 and usefull above lvl 8, although it has min. lvl 3.
 

El Jefe

First Post
Well, that just sounds like an argument that either the SRD is poorly written, or that powergamers shouldn't "waste" a feat on Craft Wondrous Item until 6th or 9th level.

I'm not sure I see a problem that needs to be solved here, at least for LEW. In LEW, there are lots of things that heroes did "back in the old days" that the newest generation of heroes are just learning how to recreate.

We also have several characters who will be knocking on 8th level in a year or so.
 

B4cchus

First Post
The problem i see is that a comparable effect (effect from a spell of the same level) can be created at far lower level as long as it isn't listed as a standard item list.

I'm just tying to get a feel of the 'mood' on this subject before i get carried away and take the feat only to discover i can't use it for another level or 3.

And indeed, the SRD seems porely written on this subjcect.
 

hafrogman

Adventurer
The SRD is pretty clear on this.
The caster level listed for each item is the caster level of the standard item as described in the DMG, it is not part of the prerequisites for item creation. If a 3rd level wizard wished to expend the XP and such forth to make a amulet of health +2 or the like, they could do so, but the item would be much easier to dispell.
 

B4cchus

First Post
Seems i was looking in the wrong place.
I ussumed to find something about this in the part about creating magical items. Instead, i found it in the general description:

srd said:
Caster Level
The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

emphasis mine.

So can we agree that this means, like halfrogman said, that a level 3 wizard can create a +2 ability enhancer?
 

Erekose13

Explorer
yes absolutely. Those CLs listed next to the items are the CL for an item found in a treasure pile or held by an NPC. When crafting a new item, the CL is not a prereq.

Regarding your initial discussion topic, I'm with El Jefe. If its in the SRD go ahead and build it. If it isn't you need to propose it.
 

Velmont

First Post
SRD said:
Magic Item Descriptions
[...]
Items with full descriptions have their powers detailed, and each of the following topics is covered in notational form at the end of the description.

Aura
[...]

Caster Level
[...]

Prerequisites
[...]

Market Price
[...]

Cost to Create
[...]

Weight
[...]

So, if you read that, all Items description are written like that:

Magic Item Name

Description of the effect of the item

Aura; Caster Level; Prerequisit; Market Price; (Price to Create); (Weight)

The last two items doesn't appear everywhere. So, Caster Level isn't a prerequisit, as it is define outside prerequisit.

Example:

SRD said:
Spined Shield
This +1 heavy steel shield is covered in spines. It acts as a normal spiked shield. On command up to three times per day, the shield’s wearer can fire one of the shield’s spines. A fired spine has a +1 enhancement bonus, a range increment of 120 feet, and deals 1d10 points of damage (19-20/×2). Fired spines regenerate each day.

Moderate evocation; CL 6th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, magic missile; Price 5,580 gp; Cost 2,740 gp + 223 XP.

Weight can be guess. I hope it is getting clearer like that.
 

Patlin

Explorer
On the very few items that have a caster level prerequisite, it says so very specifically such as:

Cloak of Resistance
These garments offer magic protection in the form of a +1 to +5 resistance bonus on all saving throws (Fortitude, Reflex, and Will).

Faint abjuration; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, resistance, creator’s caster level must be at least three times the cloak’s bonus; Price 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5);Weight 1 lb.
 

Someone

Adventurer
For minor variants on existing items ther should be no need for a proposal thread. However, the guidelines on the SRD are guidelines, not rules: it's possible to build unbalanced items. Examples:

Cleric Bob's Discount Happystick: Casts Cure light wounds at will. Prized caster level 1 x spell level 1 x 1800 gp, plus a reduction of 30% because user must be a cleric (called Bob). Total: 1260 gp.

Wizard Fred's Trinket of Cheap safety: Casts Mage armor at will. Prized Caster level 1 x spell level 1 x 1800, plus 30% reduction because user must be a wizard (called Fred). Total: for 1260 gp you can mage armor everyone in the party, as long you remember to renovate the spell every hour. copare that with standard brazers of armor +4 (16000 go)
 
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Erekose13

Explorer
Items not in the SRD would need to be approved in a proposal. These two would not be approved. Note that the guideline to follow with the price reduction is that if someone is using that just to get a cheaper item for themselves it wont work. Its a dumb rule in there and very very few items would pass with that added in.

Also note that if a spell duplicates one of the other functions covered (AC in the case of mage armor) you follow the more restrictive/expensive option.
 

Someone

Adventurer
Well, yes, that was my point. They are unbalanced even without the prize discount, which is just the icing on the cake.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Someone said:
Well, yes, that was my point. They are unbalanced even without the prize discount, which is just the icing on the cake.
Indeed--It is generally the case that almost any spell priced for At-Will or Continuous functionality needs to have a substantial mark-up to be balanced. I am sure the judges will recognise this, and if they don't, well, there's always people like you and me who will point it out in the proposal threads ;)
 

Patlin

Explorer
I found the Goruksblain proposal to be a workable way to add a minor artifact to the game (as a DM) -- I think custom items should generally go through the proposal process. It isn't that onerous, after all, and gives everyone a chance to comment.
 

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