Damage bonuses to powers

[Kzach]

I've sortof asked this before and the consensus seemed to be that bonuses to damage from class features and items apply to die rolls even when the primary ability's bonus does not.

For instance, Chaos Bolt's extra bolts would do 1d6 + Chaos Power + Dual Implement Spellcaster.

However, as I'm looking through some powers I note that whenever the primary ability bonus doesn't apply to damage, it also doesn't list any of these other bonuses.

So for instance, Acidic Implantation. The consensus would seem to point to all bonuses to damage except the primary stat, applying to the die roll of damage. Yet the Character Builder would seem to infer that this isn't the case.

Does anyone know for sure either way?

 

[eamon]

The rules don't distinguish between damage rolls with an ability modifier and those without - things are generally just described as applying to damage rolls (or, very rarely, damage) and thus should apply equally regardless of whether an ability modifier happens to be included or not.

The character builder is a definitely not perfect though it's (fortunately!) always getting better. I wouldn't assume that just because the character builder happens to contain a power that all possible rule interactions were correctly implemented and noted on the power card.

You should ask CS if you're really unsure, but I'm confident they'll confirm that a damage roll without an ability modifier is still a damage roll and that the usual modifiers to damage rolls still apply.

 

[eamon]

Incidentally, while you're looking at the sorcerer, another interesting example is for instance Dragonflame Mantle (utility level 2 power). This isn't an implement power, so enhancement bonuses to damage rolls won't apply, but it's an arcane power with a damage roll and would trigger the sorcerer's class features which add your Str or Dex modifier to "damage rolls of arcane powers". Last I looked, however (which was months ago), the character builder did not correctly apply this bonus.

This isn't a surprising bug; somehow the software needs to be aware of what's a damage roll, and typically in software such introspection is complex (i.e. there must be code to compute the damage expression, but it's not necessarily the case that that code "understands" itself and can discern rolls from other expressions). Most likely the damage rolls were manually identified as such - and they just missed a few.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Or, and this seems more likely given my experiences with the Character Builder, the flaw is in the CB's ability to apply Class Features.
Specifically, while the Builder notes which ability was chosen for the class ability, it doesn't automatically apply those benefits to all applicable powers. Because of a flaw in the programming that tries to ignore certain class features (and the feats that affect them).
An annoying bug but easily compensated for once you recognize it.

 

[DracoSuave]

Character Builder only tends to include the primary attack in its calculations. It doesn't take every weapon and break it down for every damage roll, unless it's a power that has subpowers (like summonings do).

In fact, it doesn't even technically do twin-weapon powers right... it just happens that the off-hand damage uses the same formula as the on-hand damage for Twin Strike.... but if you take Two-Wolf Pounce, you can see that it doesn't differentiate handed-ness and show the damage right... it just shows you the main-hand damage for both weapons.

Which means effects and feats that only work on main-hand damage or off-hand damage don't apply themselves correctly. This is important, for example, for Two Weapon Fighting, which you'll notice tries to add its damage bonus to your off-hand weapon.


Saying 'Character Builder says it's so' for these powers is not correct; the Character builder doesn't say -anything- for these powers at all.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I've sortof asked this before and the consensus seemed to be that bonuses to damage from class features and items apply to die rolls even when the primary ability's bonus does not.

For instance, Chaos Bolt's extra bolts would do 1d6 + Chaos Power + Dual Implement Spellcaster.

However, as I'm looking through some powers I note that whenever the primary ability bonus doesn't apply to damage, it also doesn't list any of these other bonuses.

So for instance, Acidic Implantation. The consensus would seem to point to all bonuses to damage except the primary stat, applying to the die roll of damage. Yet the Character Builder would seem to infer that this isn't the case.

Does anyone know for sure either way?

The only time something applies is when something says it applies and then it applies in all cases where the requisite conditions are met. I know of NO instance where the applicability of one bonus has any effect on the applicability of another bonus except plain old bonus stacking, which is quite straightforward. So there is in fact no principle at work here at all.

We could hypothesize a feat that said something like "add +2 to damage rolls for any attack which adds a STR bonus to damage" but no such thing exists.

 

[Destil]

My single largest complaint with Character Builder is that the raw numbers adjustments are counter intuitive and don't work for attack/damage numbers. I don't mind that it's often wrong, but it won't let me fix things that are wrong.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Here is a PHBII FAQ that handles the OP's question.

7. With a power like Explosive Pyre do I add my implement bonus to extra damage rolled when and enemy enters a square adjacent to the target?

Yes, each time you for roll damage with an implement power you add your enhancement bonus.
​