Spoilers Daredevil: Born Again season two discussion

[Clint_L]

The entire premise of Iron Fist is this guy goes a to a monastary and has some of the most hard core training ever, and is so bad ass and tough that he earns the respect of the highest monks and is granted the iron fist.

Yes, the entire premise of Iron Fist is a white guy shows up and quickly becomes better at the culture than all or most of the indigenous folks so that they inevitably recognize him as king/champion/superlative/whatever.

It's a tale as old as European colonialism. Iron Fist was not even first for doing it in the kung fu genre. As well, the character was woefully miscast.

 

[gnarlygninja]

Yeah, I'm willing to grant that Scott Buck didn't do anyone any favors in season 1 of Iron Fist but he wasn't in charge for the majority of Danny's appearances in the Netflix Marvel shows. And that's ignoring all non Marvel things Finn Jones been in, where he's not that great if the role requires him to do more than be British and pretty.

 

[chuckdee]

No entirely true - while she has had no formal martial arts training, she did learn some Wushu Basics for Spirit Warriors and Weapon handling in Game of Thrones, plus she was a dancer which helped learn the fight choreography.

which really does underline the fact that Finn Jones was a terrible casting choice given the nature of the character, the writing and lack of prep time certainly didnt help

He learned weapon handling at the same time in GoT. He was only a terrible choice if given no time to work. That's the same for everyone, and is the problem of the show runner, not him.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Yes, the entire premise of Iron Fist is a white guy shows up and quickly becomes better at the culture than all or most of the indigenous folks so that they inevitably recognize him as king/champion/superlative/whatever.

It's a tale as old as European colonialism. Iron Fist was not even first for doing it in the kung fu genre. As well, the character was woefully miscast.

Let's be honest here. This bolded bit is probably the biggest issue with the entire story. It's just really icky. I LOVED Luke Cage. It hit all the right notes, even if, as I said before, the second half was a bit ... less good? Is that the right way to say it? At least for me.

But, wow. Iron Fist is just all kinds of bad. Plus, it has the one thing that I cannot stand in shows anymore - the characters make self-destructive decisions for no reason other than to further the plot. I just cringe every time I see shows do this. I have no problems with self-destructive characters. Jessica Jones is hardly the most stable, grounded individual after all. But, I can connect the dots as to why she would be self-destructive. It's not exactly complicated after all.

But the whole Danny Rand story from front to back just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Ryujin]

Let's be honest here. This bolded bit is probably the biggest issue with the entire story. It's just really icky. I LOVED Luke Cage. It hit all the right notes, even if, as I said before, the second half was a bit ... less good? Is that the right way to say it? At least for me.

But, wow. Iron Fist is just all kinds of bad. Plus, it has the one thing that I cannot stand in shows anymore - the characters make self-destructive decisions for no reason other than to further the plot. I just cringe every time I see shows do this. I have no problems with self-destructive characters. Jessica Jones is hardly the most stable, grounded individual after all. But, I can connect the dots as to why she would be self-destructive. It's not exactly complicated after all.

But the whole Danny Rand story from front to back just doesn't make any sense to me.

"Iron Fist" was born in the martial arts fever of the 1970s and leans into the "White Ninja" trope heavily. This makes it rather culturally problematic.

"Power Man" came out of the Blacksploitation films of the late 1960s, but appeared at the same time as "Iron Fist" in the '70s. Because of it's origins it was equally problematic, but can be massaged into something less troublesome and more empowering.

 

[Morrus]

We have an answer on Buck Cashman! I listened to the Empire podcast where they asked the showrunner and director and apparently it's not his real name. He is British and was in the SAS, but he's using an alias by the time we meet him.

 

[Rabulias]

What’s the chronological overlap of the OG Daredevil and Jessica Jones series?

Probably their release order is best guide for this:

• Daredevil Season 1
• Jessica Jones Season 1
• Daredevil Season 2
• Luke Cage Season 1
• Iron Fist Season 1
• Defenders Season 1
• The Punisher Season 1
• Jessica Jones Season 2
• Luke Cage Season 2
• Iron Fist Season 2
• Daredevil Season 3
• The Punisher Season 2
• Jessica Jones Season 3

 

[Stalker0]

Yes, the entire premise of Iron Fist is a white guy shows up and quickly becomes better at the culture than all or most of the indigenous folks so that they inevitably recognize him as king/champion/superlative/whatever.

It's a tale as old as European colonialism. Iron Fist was not even first for doing it in the kung fu genre. As well, the character was woefully miscast.

Sure its a terrible premise for a modern audience, and it could well be argued if iron fist should have been dropped as an option. You could of course rebuild it with a native asian actor. That would anger with the other segment of the fanbases that don't like any kind of racial recasting of any kind, so you have to pick your poison.


Ultimately though once you pick your premise....you got to go with it. And that's ultimately the sin of Iron Fist. Ok if we are going with the white savior story again....well actually sell me that story. You can't give me this whiny, bratty, weak as all out Danny Rand and expect me to believe this guy beat an entire monastaries worth of martial arts badasses to become the iron fist.

 

[Ryujin]

Sure its a terrible premise for a modern audience, and it could well be argued if iron fist should have been dropped as an option. You could of course rebuild it with a native asian actor. That would anger with the other segment of the fanbases that don't like any kind of racial recasting of any kind, so you have to pick your poison.


Ultimately though once you pick your premise....you got to go with it. And that's ultimately the sin of Iron Fist. Ok if we are going with the white savior story again....well actually sell me that story. You can't give me this whiny, bratty, weak as all out Danny Rand and expect me to believe this guy beat an entire monastaries worth of martial arts badasses to become the iron fist.

Power Man and Iron Fist had a long running partnership in the comics, so that wasn't likely to change in streaming.

 

[Toe Knee Nose]

Power Man and Iron Fist had a long running partnership in the comics, so that wasn't likely to change in streaming.

Personally, I think they could have largely ignored Danny Rand's history more or less the way they did with Luke Cage. They do talk about the experiments and whatnot, (with a hilarious nod to the crown he wore in the comics) but largely, they ignored most of the blaxploitation stuff in the history and focused on modern issues. Which made it work really well.

If they had pretty much skipped over most of Danny Rand's history and stuffed it way in the background, it would have made the character work a lot better. Stick with the modern issues - massive corporation screwing over people is a pretty easy sell.