Dark Sun returns in 2027 as Dungeons & Dragons' first mature rated setting

[Staffan]

???

I... I don't... that is a real danger...

Say what you will about old-school Dark Sun art, but it didn't do "damsel in distress." It definitely had some ladies (and dudes) who by all rights should have worn more armor and/or clothing, but I don't think they were ever portrayed as victims.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Say what you will about old-school Dark Sun art, but it didn't do "damsel in distress." It definitely had some ladies (and dudes) who by all rights should have worn more armor and/or clothing, but I don't think they were ever portrayed as victims.

Yeah and that's a huge difference. Like, I love Taladas in 1989, but I don't really understand why I need, for example, a picture of like, a bunch of gnomes (I think) carrying a naked unconscious-looking human lady around (I'd ask "what was going on" re: these sort of images, but I think I know, and I don't like it), which is just completely unconnected to anything textual about the setting, cultures, species, etc. Just a random frown-inducing image, and one of a type that was common in 1980s D&D, but largely silently vanished in 1990s D&D (again save for reprints of earlier images, but those too became less common quite rapidly), and whose vanishing didn't seem to attract complaints, either (whereas the vanishing of chainmail bikini stuff, which was less creepy if very cheesy at times, did), which I think indicates a certain mens rea about it. I notice even the Deathbringer art they show has a lot of cheesy bikini stuff (weirdly more "old-fashioned"-seeming than real '80s and even some '70s stuff, I guess that's what going consciously retro but with a modern artist does), but it doesn't have, at least in the art they're showing, any damselification (instead it's more WWE vibes stuff like, yeah this villain-lady is being strangled, but by another woman so it's fine! Which like, huh, I guess I can't really argue with that lol).

 

[Phantom_Miria]

I don't want either DS to become "add new monster-girls to your harem" but that fear is there.

I don't even know where you got such an idea.

 

[Phantom_Miria]

Yeah and that's a huge difference. Like, I love Taladas in 1989, but I don't really understand why I need, for example, a picture of like, a bunch of gnomes (I think) carrying a naked unconscious-looking human lady around (I'd ask "what was going on" re: these sort of images, but I think I know, and I don't like it), which is just completely unconnected to anything textual about the setting, cultures, species, etc. Just a random frown-inducing image, and one of a type that was common in 1980s D&D, but largely silently vanished in 1990s D&D (again save for reprints of earlier images, but those too became less common quite rapidly), and whose vanishing didn't seem to attract complaints, either (whereas the vanishing of chainmail bikini stuff, which was less creepy if very cheesy at times, did), which I think indicates a certain mens rea about it. I notice even the Deathbringer art they show has a lot of cheesy bikini stuff (weirdly more "old-fashioned"-seeming than real '80s and even some '70s stuff, I guess that's what going consciously retro but with a modern artist does), but it doesn't have, at least in the art they're showing, any damselification (instead it's more WWE vibes stuff like, yeah this villain-lady is being strangled, but by another woman so it's fine! Which like, huh, I guess I can't really argue with that lol).

I think it's less mens rea per se and more that there was a natural evolution in the roles that women would and could play in fantasy over the years, and thus the variety of visual preferences went with it. So while in the '80s the classic damsel in distress was still a fairly popular visual trope, by the '90s you would see more women in more active roles as that imagery had become considerably more normalized.

I think this was a change that happened during the '80s themselves actually, because I believe that a lot of fantasy art with a greater focus on warrior women comes from this period, while the visual imagery for classic damsels in distress might be more an element coming from previous decades of pulp magazines. Like, possibly going straight into the '30s and '20s.

Just spitballing out of what I remember from looking at various decades of fantasy art over the years.

 

[Clint_L]

The little trailer makes me think they’ve looked at the success of The Legend of Vox Machina and are going for that kind of vibe.

Insisting on how dangerous and naughty DS will be is kind of adorable. It’s D&D. My old Deities and Demigods probably has as much skin as this will.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

DS doesn't quite make as much sense for seeing the damsel in distress situation. S&S settings where warlords viewed woman as prizes, or they were dowry groomed, or they were daughters of farmers who had no clue what to do with them... I could see it being a theme, but your aesthetic focus doesn't have to inordinately focus on it in a tacky way either

 

[Nebulous]

What is this Dark Sun themed Players Handbook? Is it identical to the PHB 5.5 with different art or does it have rules specifically for Dark Sun?

 

[Clint_L]

DS doesn't quite make as much sense for seeing the damsel in distress situation. S&S settings where warlords viewed woman as prizes, or they were dowry groomed, or they were daughters of farmers who had no clue what to do with them... I could see it being a theme, but your aesthetic focus doesn't have to inordinately focus on it in a tacky way either

I can all but guarantee you that WotC is not going to use those themes in a DS remake. It will be a gender parity DS. More like Critical Role - violent and sometimes lightly raunchy, but equal opportunity violent and lightly raunchy. There will be nothing about women as prizes, etc. Not in official material.

Edit: Reflecting more, I could see those themes being used in a non-gendered way. So young men or women being used for dowry negotiations, etc. Maybe. Probably, though, they'll stay away from gendered themes, period. Why go there?

 

[Clint_L]

What is this Dark Sun themed Players Handbook? Is it identical to the PHB 5.5 with different art or does it have rules specifically for Dark Sun?

They only mentioned different art. I could see them renaming a few species so a few folks don't have a conniption about orcs in DS or whatever, but wouldn't count on it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What is this Dark Sun themed Players Handbook? Is it identical to the PHB 5.5 with different art or does it have rules specifically for Dark Sun?

The former, they've been very clear.