Dex bonus while grappling

[Gweldorf]

Do you retain your Dex bonus in a grapple while pinned?
For regular grappling it clearly states you lose it only against opponents outside the grapple, and the pin rules don't mention it, but states that you are immobile.

 

[moritheil]

Do you retain your Dex bonus in a grapple while pinned?
For regular grappling it clearly states you lose it only against opponents outside the grapple, and the pin rules don't mention it, but states that you are immobile.

Do you have your dex bonus if you're immobile?

 

[Gweldorf]

That's what I'm asking. It says you are held immobile (but not helpless). So it's unclear to me. Immobile is not defined in the glossary.

 

[Camarath]

I can not find a definition for Immobile which states that you lose your dex bonus so I am inclined to think you do not lose it. I am also not inclined to think that the Uncanny Doge provision ("However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.") applies to all characters rather than only as a limit to the Uncanny Doge ability.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Check the footnote to the table of AC modifiers.

It states (for a pin) that you have an effective Dex of 0, with a consequent -5 modifier to AC. You also take a -4 modifier to AC vs melee attacks.

So if your Dex is 16, you take an effective penalty of -13 to AC (no +3 Dex bonus, -5 penalty, -4 penalty).

-Hyp.

 

[Gweldorf]

Great, that settles it. Thanks Hypersmurf.

 

[Camarath]

It states (for a pin) that you have an effective Dex of 0, with a consequent -5 modifier to AC. You also take a -4 modifier to AC vs melee attacks.

Do you think that the effective Dex of 0 would apply against the opponent pinning you because the –4 penalty is stated not to?

 

[moritheil]

Do you think that the effective Dex of 0 would apply against the opponent pinning you because the –4 penalty is stated not to?

Uh, I read that as a -4 vs. melee in addition to Dex 0. Since it says "You also take . . . "

Nowhere in the quoted section do I see that that is not applicable to your opponent.

 

[Camarath]

Uh, I read that as a -4 vs. melee in addition to Dex 0. Since it says "You also take . . . "

Nowhere in the quoted section do I see that that is not applicable to your opponent.

SRD
"If You’re Pinned by an Opponent
When an opponent has pinned you, you are held immobile (but not helpless) for 1 round. While you’re pinned, you take a –4 penalty to your AC against opponents other than the one pinning you. At your opponent’s option, you may also be unable to speak. On your turn, you can try to escape the pin by making an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you want, but this requires a standard action. If you win, you escape the pin, but you’re still grappling."

Does the note apply if the penalty does not?

 

[moritheil]

SRD
"If You’re Pinned by an Opponent
When an opponent has pinned you, you are held immobile (but not helpless) for 1 round. While you’re pinned, you take a –4 penalty to your AC against opponents other than the one pinning you. At your opponent’s option, you may also be unable to speak. On your turn, you can try to escape the pin by making an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. You can make an Escape Artist check in place of your grapple check if you want, but this requires a standard action. If you win, you escape the pin, but you’re still grappling."

Does the note apply if the penalty does not?

Before that, answer me this: Which applies if a table is in contradiction with some text that accompanies it? Is it the table that wins, or the text?