D&D General Dice randomness for the... win?

[Voadam]

I'm using the 5.5E Monster Manual, and adding the lair actions from the OG 5E. (why did they remove them?? or am I missing this section.

Lairs in 5.5 have an environmental always on effect but not a different set of additional actions now. For the black dragon it is on page 40.

 

[billd91]

Well, they decided they want to go back and deal with that dragon. They did not long rest in the vault- didn't need to. They were full strength goin in, so only down 1 2nd and 1 6th level slots, and no injuries.

I'm using the 5.5E Monster Manual, and adding the lair actions from the OG 5E. (why did they remove them?? or am I missing this section. likewise, why no bite attack???) Adult Black dragon. This IS it's lair, so I applied the boosts for that already. It's init is around +12 or +13, which is way better than the party's. Throwing those legendary actions in there helps, too! (this time I will remember to use them, dammit!!!)

<snip>

I liked 5.5e's version best, but it, too is missing something... BITE, tail, wing attacks

Well, they did something kind of funky with the dragon's multiattacks - rather than break out bite, claw, wing, tail - everything's all grouped under Rend. I'm not exactly sure why they did it that way. It doesn't really get in the way of things and I supposed it's somewhat simplified.

Gotta say, I LOVE how they added it's Initiative bonus line to the top of the stat block. Great change! Same for doing the math, and printing it's saves right along with it's ability scores. Another great usability change. I actually started doing this on MY character sheets, new and rewrites, lol.

Oh, yeah. That's a big and nice change. Some monsters get to add their proficiency bonus, some, like that adult black dragon, add twice their proficiency bonus (like they're not merely proficient with initiative, they have expertise). It's a lot harder for a group of PCs to roll lucky enough to beat the tougher monster's initiative and wipe it out before it gets to go.

 

[Gorg]

Well, the redo of this monster and encounter was pretty epic!!!

I used the 5.5e Adult Black dragon, and added 2 lair actions: The surge of water from nearby pools-(because I HAD to, lol), and Darkness. I also added a bite attack- so bite/rend/rend, or rend/rend/spell, or even rendx3. Wing and tail attacks were added as legendary actions. (and never used)

I also gave him thugs: 4 bugbears and a bugbear boss and 2 Dire Centipedes. To soak up attacks, and maybe deal a bit of damage.

In the end, the entire party was wounded, the Cleric nearly died, and the Druid was hurt bad. I gave the monsters a surprise round- the dragon was indeed aware of their doings in the dungeon, and prepared accordingly. Plus, we were NOT aware of the bugbears or centipedes until they attacked. Dragon opened with a breath attack nd nailled half the party. 2 saved 2 didn't.
the centipedes went after the right flank- and the thief and wizard.

The dragon and bugbears won initiative- the latter by dint of a nat 20. They mobbed the barbarian and paladin, then the Dragon charged the Cleric with a full attack. melfs acid arrow and getting crits on BOTH rends... down to 19hp. He lives ONLY because the dragon took GREAT exception to the cone of cold and disintegrate spells the wizard and sorceror threw at him- and pounced on the sorceror. or one of his mirror images, anyway, lol the druid then got him with an erupting earth. (she was quite salty about that acid to the face...AND the insect swarm)

Along the way, the surge lair action managed to only take out the bugbears, lol. WE all saved- they did not. And got dragged 20' into the pool and knocked prone.

The Druid's spell dropped the dragon to 5 hp, and since the rest of our party were engaged with the bugbears- on it's turn, it took off, retreating back to it's ledge- and dropping it's Vitreolic Sphere on us as an EFF YOU!!!! it caught the whole party. AGAIN, Cleric was dropped nearly to 0 (thank god for the Aura of Vitality he cast on the way in- it saved his life!)

then came my favorite part: the wizard said, huh huh NO- screw YOU!! and sent an upcast 4th level magic missile at him. Essentially blowing it out of the air.

As an added bonus, the thief used sneak attack on the last bugbear- who was just climbing out of the water going after the Fighter. Natural. Effing. 20. That's 14d6 on an arrow from a shortbow. He had 7 hp. The amount of damage was ungodly overkill, lol. So, for comic effect, I said the arrow caught him just getting up- it went in his nostril- and came out his butthole.

Surprisingly, the thief declined trying to find and salvage that arrow.

The centipedes are ice sculptures- they got in the way of that cone of cold...


We survived- and have a VERY nice dragon hoard to claim, but I have a feeling the divine casters will be out of slots and lay on hands before we leave this cavern. The intent is to gather our caches of loot and use the Cleric's Amulet of Teleportation to return to the gate we arrived at in the foothills. via Teleportation Circle. then use that gate to bring the Wondrous Lanthorn to Elminster's tower- completing the quest.

All told, between this and the last adventure, they each now have enough $$ to turn their houses in Daggerdale into whatever they were planning. (a tower for the wizard, a school for the Paladin, a shrine to Selune for the cleric, etc.) plus various nice items to furnish them as mementos. The barbarian doesn't much care- he has his axe and a folding boat to go explore the wilderness. Maybe find a lady barbarian to chase after in Rashemen, where he is from. Until, of course, wanderlust and the urge to adventure takes us again. (or we run out of money, lol)

 

[Voadam]

Well, they did something kind of funky with the dragon's multiattacks - rather than break out bite, claw, wing, tail - everything's all grouped under Rend. I'm not exactly sure why they did it that way. It doesn't really get in the way of things and I supposed it's somewhat simplified.

It is a very weird thing.

They get multiple rends that do slashing damage, but it is not clear if this is supposed to represent claws or biting. Leaving it ambiguous could be their point. Or saving space in the stat block while keeping multiple attacks.

Other 5.5 monsters have separate claw and bite attacks. Like the vampire spawn or the allosaurus. Others have a claw attack on its own without a rend like the giant crab as opposed to the rend of the griffin and dragons.

 

[billd91]

It is a very weird thing.

They get multiple rends that do slashing damage, but it is not clear if this is supposed to represent claws or biting. Leaving it ambiguous could be their point. Or saving space in the stat block while keeping multiple attacks.

Other 5.5 monsters have separate claw and bite attacks. Like the vampire spawn or the allosaurus. Others have a claw attack on its own without a rend like the giant crab as opposed to the rend of the griffin and dragons.

Probably the biggest benefit is the simplification in the sense that the attacks do standardized damage instead of one value for bite, one for claw, one for tail. Plus, they all add the acid damage that previously only the bite dealt. And, maybe even more importantly for ease of use, they all have the same reach rather than 10 feet, 5 feet, and 15 feet, respectively.

 

[Gorg]

funny part is, the 5e Black dragon's bite attack also deals acid damage. in 5.5 all three rend attacks do.

 

[Voadam]

Just read the 5.5 sphinxes, the tiny one does multiattack rend with slashing and radiant. The next step up one does multiattack claw with slashing and radiant. The next two steps up do multiattack claws with slashing but no radiant damage. Just weird. I am having trouble coming up with consistent guiding principles for this stuff.

 

[Gorg]

Just read the 5.5 sphinxes, the tiny one does multiattack rend with slashing and radiant. The next step up one does multiattack claw with slashing and radiant. The next two steps up do multiattack claws with slashing but no radiant damage. Just weird. I am having trouble coming up with consistent guiding principles for this stuff.

That's something I'd definitely add back in. Almost sounds like an editorial miss. This is also why converting or customizing monsters is a PAIN. How do you assign CR?? There seems to be no rhyme or reason for why one creature is high, and one low.

SPECTERS are CR1. Specters!!! Because of that, a potentially deadly encounter with a group of them led by a Wraith ended in less than one round- with 0 damage to the players. All it took is one Turn undead attempt by the 10th level cleric. Poof! all the Specters are gone! Destroyed.

I see creatures with a laundry list of immunities and resistances- and often deadly special attacks- with low CR. Then a few pages later, a high CR monster with very little of that- just a bag of HP. This is true with 5e, 5.5e AND Level Up- so it's not an editorial oversight...