Hey,
@VHawkwinter, just wanted to let you know that I'm going to drop this conversation, not because I haven't found it interesting and think it could still go somewhere, but because the two of us kind of grabbed this thread and drifted it like heck, since for a while now its mostly just been the two of us, and had the most tentative connection with the thread origin.
But I wanted to thank you for a nice conversation where even though we had a few fundamental disagreements I never found it anything but pleasant and interesting. Not something you see with a long conversation online too often.