Discovery and Star Trek

CapnZapp

Hero
Great quotes from a review:

- "The show is explicitly drawing on Trek lore to achieve its goals, and yet every nod to the original series [] just underlines how un-Star Trek this show really is."

- "I can’t appreciate what it does right because I’m routinely distracted by the weird, pointless, or outright bad choices the writers have made. We’re six episodes in, and I’m still getting annoyed at how advanced the technology is for a series that’s ostensibly set ten years before the original Trek."

- "The ship is just a series of rooms, not a place"
- "adding to the impression that there are maybe a dozen people aboard the Discovery, if that. (Everyone else is a hologram. [])"

https://www.avclub.com/another-episode-with-too-much-star-trek-not-enough-dis-1819758431
(review of episode 6 - SPOILERS obvs)


Add to this how the writers feel obliged to use action at every possible time, the movie-shiny surface with no depth, and (worst of all) the insane amount of mumbo-jumbo.

They have actually went ahead and f*cked with every technical limitation there is. Discovery not only has transporters, holodecks, and replicators, they can travel instantly anywhere, and Burnham has the magical ability to connect with Sarek galaxy-wide.

There is no sense of place or time, since there are no limitations. It is limitations that separate "sci fi" from "sci fa", and these writers are hacks that simply don't care.

No, this is written by someone who just maybe has looked at the recent shallow action spectacles of the movies to learn everything they know of the property.

The end is very pretty but ultimately deeply unsatisfying trek, and way more science fantasy than science fiction.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I love it. It's the best Trek has been in a long, long time. It has the atmosphere and some of the aesthetic of Wrath of Khan - by far the best Trek movie or episode of all, and doesn't bore me silly like Enterprise and Voyager did.

I also like that it's a journey. The Starfleet we know and love doesn't really exist yet - it's still a few years away, and we're going to see how we get to that point thorough the eyes of the Discovery. They've already namechecked the Enterprise, too!

It's got its haters, and they're kinda boorishly omnipresent, but I don't care. It's the one show I'm currently waiting for each week right now.
 
As a new sci-fi series, Discovery is decent and worth watching. A little on the slow side, too much exposition, and I could skip every scene that shows the Klingons and not miss a single important thing. But it's got a fun space war plot going on with multiple levels of conflict, flashy special effects, some interesting characters and long term plots that could turn out to be very interesting if handled well.

But when I want to watch a show about a group of scientist-diplomats traveling on the outskirts of the galaxy, exploring strange worlds, meeting aliens, and overcoming exciting and unexpected problems while bantering with a diverse crew that I can relate to and enjoy spending time with, I watch The Orville.
 
Last edited:

MarkB

Hero
I'm still loving the show. Everything about Burnham trying to track down Sarek through their connection, and learning important things about their relationship in the process, feels absolutely like classic Trek to me. And while Lorca's storyline continues to run along a darker path, the slow unfolding of his backstory is an interesting exploration of how Starfleet's ideals bend under the pressures of war.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
I think I will love the show, too, if I ever get to see it.

But...

Here's something of canon, changed by Discovery. In the time of Kirk, Starfleet did not allow for female Captains (according to the last episode of Season Three, Turnabout Intruder.
 

Guang

Explorer
Cannibalistic Klingons that don't care about honor, a Federation in which people can work together for years and still not cohere into a decent team, and now terrorist Vulcan xenophobes (Whatever happened to IDIC?).

Some of the fan theories might redeem it for me (like the section 31 one, in particular), but I'm no longer willing to watch to see what they want to undermine next. I'll browse reviews to see if section 31, or mirror universe people, or Romulan interference, or what not show up. If they do, I'll give it another try. If not, I'm done with this show. (although the giant worm invader is tempting.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I think I will love the show, too, if I ever get to see it.

But...

Here's something of canon, changed by Discovery. In the time of Kirk, Starfleet did not allow for female Captains (according to the last episode of Season Three, Turnabout Intruder.
Ugh. How ugly. Well, if they had such a misogynistic rule, I think we can all be grateful they did the right thing and retconned it away.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
Ugh. How ugly. Well, if they had such a misogynistic rule, I think we can all be grateful they did the right thing and retconned it away.
Yeah, that was the whole point of that last episode, Turnabout Intruder. One of Kirk's old flames, Janice Lester, is psychotically burned up with jealousy and hatred against Kirk because he can command a starship and she can't. Lester is an archaeologist, and on an alien world, she finds an alien device that allows personality transfers between bodies. She creates an emergency by killing her own staff, which lures the Enterprise to the planet. Lester gets Kirk alone and changes bodies with him using the alien device.







From an RPG perspective the body transfer plot can be GM fodder for an interesting Star Trek game session, if done correctly. Take a player aside and secretly tell him that his character's body has been possessed. Make sure that none of the other players know of this secret agreement between GM and the player of the possessed character. Then, watch to see which side the other players take. Do they believe that the PC has been possessed?

You could even turn this scenario on its ear by setting up the situation, but not having the possession take place--just the claim that it did by a very deranged and psychopathic NPC like Janice Lester.
 

Flexor the Mighty!

18/100 Strength!
I'm not sure they disallowed as much as there was a glass ceiling as they say. Of coruse there were women commanders during the Enterprise era and some say it was just a bitter line from a bitter woman that wasn't any kind of truth.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
I'm not sure they disallowed as much as there was a glass ceiling as they say. Of coruse there were women commanders during the Enterprise era and some say it was just a bitter line from a bitter woman that wasn't any kind of truth.
The line in Turnabout Intruder is, "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women."

On the surface, that looks pretty plain to me. The other argument is that the line is uttered from deranged psychotic. We have some retconned female captains from Discovery and Enterprise, and Number One is a first officer about Chris Pike's Enterprise. Maybe there's no hard rule but there is a bit of a glass ceiling. Even in later eras, it doesn't seem that the split between male and female Captains is 50%. Even in TNG's time period, the male captains seem to outnumber the female captains.

I guess the comment could be construed from that point of view.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
As a naive kid I thought that she didn't make captain because she was nuts. As an adult I realized that at the time it was a stretch that there was a woman, and a Black woman at that, on the bridge crew. A female captain would never make it past the producers.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
As a naive kid I thought that she didn't make captain because she was nuts. As an adult I realized that at the time it was a stretch that there was a woman, and a Black woman at that, on the bridge crew. A female captain would never make it past the producers.
It may be a retcon, but Uhura was not Command Path, just like McCoy and Scotty. Both Sulu and Checkov were in the Command Path, with Checkov becoming first officer of the Reliant and Sulu taking command of the Excelsior. Scotty does become a Captain, in The Search For Spock, taking equal rank with Kirk and Spock, but he is not a starship commander. He's "Captain of Engineering" instead.

Also, Uhura seems to be in a dying profession. The Communications Officer is dropped and merged into other positions in the TNG era.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
It may be a retcon, but Uhura was not Command Path, just like McCoy and Scotty. Both Sulu and Checkov were in the Command Path, with Checkov becoming first officer of the Reliant and Sulu taking command of the Excelsior. Scotty does become a Captain, in The Search For Spock, taking equal rank with Kirk and Spock, but he is not a starship commander. He's "Captain of Engineering" instead.

Also, Uhura seems to be in a dying profession. The Communications Officer is dropped and merged into other positions in the TNG era.
You need to view it through the lens of the time, not today. At the time it was a huge step forward in network TV.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
You need to view it through the lens of the time, not today. At the time it was a huge step forward in network TV.
I think I did, didn't I? I say above that it's pretty plain to me that the sentence, ""Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women," means what it says--that Starfleet doesn't allow female captains. That's a very 60's lens from which to view the show.

The rest of what I say is with respect to the shows that have come since TOS. If, indeed, Enterprise and Discover show female captains, then obviously, from that POV, starfleet doesn't have a no-female-captain mandate.
 

Legatus_Legionis

< BLAH HA Ha ha >
I heard an online rumour that STD main characters are based from the MIRROR UNIVERSE.

This would explain ALOT of the inconsistancys with canon and the show in general.
 

Guang

Explorer
There is no sense of place or time, since there are no limitations. It is limitations that separate "sci fi" from "sci fa", and these writers are hacks that simply don't care.
Looks like you and me are the only ones that feel that way. Everyone else absolutely loves it. :erm:
 

Hussar

Legend
Star Trek full of technobabble? The hell you say. Good grief the show has been replete with treknobabble so long that there is actually a term for it.

Just a nitpick but would it actually be cannibalism to eat another species? But, in any case it doesn’t bother me. The whole point of klingons has always been to be the bad guys. Now they really are.

And how are people getting the impression that there are no people there? We see all sorts of people all the time. And TOS has replicators. We see them in TOS all the time every time people eat. It was the movies that gave the enterprise a galley. Before that food just appeared in the slots.

I really wonder if the people criticizing these points have actually watched Star Trek. As far as holodecks go, um that was seen in Enterprise.
 

Advertisement

Top