D&D General Disentangling D&D from D&D Fantasy

[Reynard]

Beside 2e Dark Sun, which was more like game for itself, but based on 2e ruleset, there is one that springs to mind.

If any of the AD&D settings qualify, it is Dark Sun. I did not play it enough to know how far away from D&D Fantasy it really got. I know it reframed a lot of races and tropes, though, so I won't argue with folks that are more familiar with it.

3e D20 Game of Thrones. It uses d&d d20 game engine, but it plays very different than standard 3.x d&d. All classes are reworked, magic system is removed, armor is now DR. There is no linear fighter quadratic wizard problem. They added some social mechanics also. It's as far away as you can get from classic d&d as you can, yet if you ever played 3ed d&d, it's more or less same engine.

Other game is 5e Free League's LotR. It's 5e engine, but it's definetly not your standard 5e power fantasy.

These are both good examples.

 

[Remathilis]

Beside 2e Dark Sun, which was more like game for itself, but based on 2e ruleset, there is one that springs to mind.

I've always argued Dark Sun is less a D&D setting and more a different game sitting on AD&D's resolution system. A proto d20 game. It just needed its own real PHB.

 

[Krachek]

I never DM using published materials or lore, and I barely play with DM using such source.
So for me, DnD is already detached from its lore.
The Phb and Dm guide can be use for a home brew setting without any knowledge about dnd novels lore.
Most monsters can be stripped of any lore, and inserted in a new setting.

 

[GrimCo]

If any of the AD&D settings qualify, it is Dark Sun. I did not play it enough to know how far away from D&D Fantasy it really got. I know it reframed a lot of races and tropes, though, so I won't argue with folks that are more familiar with it.

DS and vanilla 2ed share basic rules, like saving throws, thac0, descending AC. Skeleton rules. Classes are reworked. Races are reworked. Magic system reworked, with perservers and defilers having different casting times and xp progressions, elemental clerics having different spell lists depending on element. Also, default method for stats shifted from 4d6 to 4d6+4 and they explicitly stated you should start game at level 3. Tone also changed, from standard European medieval inspired heroic fantasy, to more grimdark sword&sandals "Conan meets Mad Max" post apocalyptic survival.

@Remathilis Agree. Pretty much only thing you needed 2e PHB for Dark Sun game was for basic game rules, which they could easily make as booklet for DS box set.

These are both good examples.

Thx. Both of those are great games in itself.

 

[Reynard]

Thx. Both of those are great games in itself.

I never played GoT, but I really liked AiME.

 

[Desdichado]

There are only so many ways to represent fantasy and virtually all of them are going to feel very D&D like or D&D adjacent. D&D is so generic it's hard for it not to touch quite a bit on any fantasy you make.

I've never--even as a kid in the 80s--thought D&D was generic. It never seemed to fit any of the fantasy that I was familiar with. It certainly is broad, but that's very different from generic.

 

[Desdichado]

If any of the AD&D settings qualify, it is Dark Sun. I did not play it enough to know how far away from D&D Fantasy it really got. I know it reframed a lot of races and tropes, though, so I won't argue with folks that are more familiar with it.

From the old d20 era, we could probably find quite a few more. The Midnight setting, for instance, if anyone remembers that. Settings like Dragonstar. Sovereign Stone. Maybe even entire d20 games, like the Wheel of Time one that WotC did in the early 00s. Again, it depends on what you consider necessary to be considered D&D or not. To me, just being "fantasy" with elves and dwarves isn't enough; D&D is as much defined by its eccentric magic system and the whole adventuring in dungeons paradigm as by anything else. You change those things, and suddenly it may not feel much like D&D anymore even if it uses 90% of the rest of the D&D rules.

 

[Reynard]

From the old d20 era, we could probably find quite a few more. The Midnight setting, for instance, if anyone remembers that. Settings like Dragonstar. Sovereign Stone. Maybe even entire d20 games, like the Wheel of Time one that WotC did in the early 00s. Again, it depends on what you consider necessary to be considered D&D or not. To me, just being "fantasy" with elves and dwarves isn't enough; D&D is as much defined by its eccentric magic system and the whole adventuring in dungeons paradigm as by anything else. You change those things, and suddenly it may not feel much like D&D anymore even if it uses 90% of the rest of the D&D rules.

I think Midnight, Dragonstar and Sovereign Stone are all clearly in the "D&D Fantasy" subgenre.

 

[Corinnguard]

The Dragonstar RPG was basically 3e D&D as Science Fantasy instead of Medieval Fantasy. A stellar empire run by dragons (both Chromatic and Metallic).

 

[Reynard]

The Dragonstar RPG was basically 3e D&D as Science Fantasy instead of Medieval Fantasy. A stellar empire run by dragons (both Chromatic and Metallic).

It was actually pretty cool. One of the better variants to come out of that era IMO.