D&D 5E (2014) DM imposed restrictions to the game (+)

[Mecheon]

So basically “my character is immune to any and all non-magical fear effects unless i give the say so”? Yep, I’m calling nonsense on that.

The opposite though is the nonsense of Ravenloft monstrous appendix 2, where its saying 'you have to take a fear check from even HEARING about a brain in a jar! ohhhhh the brain in the jar, so spooky!'

Some characters are scared of tiny spiders, others can face down a dragon but have really bad phobias about walking into a dark barn and getting their eye taken out by a hook. A decent person will play to their character and roll with it

 

[Remathilis]

So basically “my character is immune to any and all non-magical fear effects unless i give the say so”? Yep, I’m calling nonsense on that.

Please list all the nonmagical fear effects in 5e.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't know many humans IRL who are in constant control of their mental landscape; people don't decide to be furious, melancholic, scared...they just are.

And how many of those people lose total control of their actions, to the point they act against their natures and beliefs?

 

[Remathilis]

I feel it's pretty important to remember what they frightened condition is:

Frightened
PHB'24 p367
While you have the Frightened condition, you experience the following effects.
* Ability Checks and Attacks Affected. You have Disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls while the source of fear is within line of sight.
*Can't Approach. You can't willingly move closer to the source of fear

---
Notice what it doesn't do? TELL YOU WHAT TO DO! You are free to react to the fear however you want as long as you abide those two conditions. You aren't obligated to run, scream, drop what your holding, fall prone, stand paralyzed, lose concentration, or piss your pants. The game doesn't tell you what you do, only the two conditions on what you can't.

Is your character frightened? Yes. The game rules say so. You get to express that fear as you want. Maybe you are taken aback, doing your best to put on a brave face in spite of your fear. Maybe you are a stuttering mess like Shaggy from a Scooby Doo.

What I'm getting here is people here WANT the dice to tell them how they react. They want the dice to make them run and abandon their friends. They want to stand motionless, mouth agape, as the monster approaches. They want some random chart to tell them who their characters are.

Good for them. I want the ability to act out the effects as I see fit.

 

[tetrasodium]

I don't and I don't know where you're getting that idea. I don't ask for a save to react unless it's an explicit supernatural effect like the Yeth Hound's baleful baying.



If there is a written game mechanic that says a character will be affected in a specific way, then that's part of the game. There is no such game mechanic in D&D 5e that is not called out as supernatural or magical except for the lion's roar which is a weird exception to the rule that I would never use.



In D&D the player has control of what their character thinks or feels unless they are affected by some specific effect - in 5e 99.9% those are labeled magical or supernatural. Again, the only exception I know of is the lion's roar. Meanwhile the DM controls the world and let's the player know what affect they have on the world around them, if any. As DM I get to decided if a roll is required for NPC if I think the outcome is uncertain. I never get to decide if a roll is required for a PC unless a rule in the book specifically call for it.

The player does have authorial control over their PC. That doesn't mean the PC can do anything they want - they can attempt to do whatever they want and the DM makes the call on whether or not it succeeds. You can try to jump over the moon, you'll just never achieve it.

The "idea" came from your own post where you repeatedly mentioned it and drew a line based on you personally knowing why the gm is telling you that the "normal dog" is affecting your PC. Here it is again without the quote tags
"If a DM asks me to make a Wisdom saving throw I'm going to assume there's some supernatural effect. If they tell me that I have to make the saving throw because in my background I was once scared of a dog and Fido, a totally normal dog, just came around the corner I'm going to disagree with the call. On the other hand if Fido is really a Yeth Hound and just used their Baleful Howl ability it's fine because they are baying magically. On the other hand if a Tarrasque walks around the corner my character might be turning tale and running"

Also why is it that all of these posts espousing depth of roleplay and absolute author level player control over a PC seem to think that the only way the world could possibly affect a PC is through fear? The ways that someone could be directly or indirectly affected by the world or something on it are endless awe alarm shock disgust sorrow rage/anger doubt/certainty respect for deeds/social standing/position organizational backing/etc. the list is absolutely endless.


The fact that the GM is telling you that a "normal dog coming around the corner is affecting your PC in ways that seem odd for the apparent situation should be a strong reason to take action and use skills to look into understanding why... Demanding the option to nosell that based on being in the "mood' to be affected or knowing that it's obviously overly magical sidesteps the need to actually play the game and make actions that might put your PC at risk of unknown consequences or have a chance of it being a thing your PC is bad at in ways that result in leaning on other PCs who may be better skilled at those things... Demanding the answer has zero risk for The Star PC at the table and wotc has even in helped me ensure that the only person who could look unreasonable is the gm who shuts down that unreasonable player demand for both absolute control and on demand metaknowledge

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Just to be clear, by that, do you mean scary to players? Cause, there are people who want to play or run horror game where characters are scared, panicked or in distress, but players are chill, relaxed and have fun.

Bingo. I hate watching 90%+ of horror movies specifically for this reason--I want to see others face horror (and, preferably, grow into the kind of person who can overcome that horror) not feel horrified. Feeling horrified, myself, would completely spoil my experience of the game and make me want to huddle up in my room under a blanket for an hour to get my emotions back to normal.

Great example: I played in a one-shot Alien tabletop game. It's a little weird because everyone gets a pregen character to work with (sort of like Betrayal at the House on the Hill), which has specific defined goals and such. Mine was actually a corporate infiltrator pretending to be just an ordinary worker--she was driven, focused, and ruthless, but an excellent deep-cover agent. Very different from me. But it was very interesting playing that character. Nobody guessed what my character's real motives were--getting out with genetic/tissue samples of the xenomorph--and I tried to balance that ruthlessness and intelligence against the expected appearance of someone who was "just" a mining-ship crewman. When I finally revealed my true motives after the one-shot was over, everyone was shocked, though some of that is simply that I don't.

Actually watching a movie like the original Alien? Yeah, not my speed. Portraying a character trying to simultaneously show incredible steel, while also pretending to be someone else, while escaping from a xenomorph? Actually pretty awesome.

The fact that I, personally, wasn't feeling what my character was, but could still feel connected to a person having those feelings, was precisely what made it worth doing in the first place. I don't want to feel horrified. But it's fascinating to peer through the persona--the mask--of someone horrified.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Portraying a character trying to simultaneously show incredible steel, while also pretending to be someone else, while escaping from a xenomorph? Actually pretty awesome.

That's entertaining, but that's the action/adventure genre (see Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom for example), not horror. Horror comes from the primal experience of telling scary stories around the camp fire. Scaring the audience is the whole point. Lots of people (but not everyone) enjoy being frightened because it gives them an adrenaline buzz.

Of course, many movies, including Alien, have both.

Of course Alien was based on Doctor Who: The Ark in Space, which traumatised 7 year old me!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Also why is it that all of these posts espousing depth of roleplay and absolute author level player control over a PC seem to think that the only way the world could possibly affect a PC is through fear? The ways that someone could be directly or incorrectly affected by the world or something on it are endless awe alarm shock disgust sorrow rage/anger doubt/certainty respect for deeds/social standing/position organizational backing/etc. the list is absolutely endless.

It indeed is. So as GM learn to portray that world so that it feels real and meaningful, and get players who create characters with values, beliefs, and emotions and who portray those faithfully. Then these will interact, and the characters will be affected. No rules necessary.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Bingo. I hate watching 90%+ of horror movies specifically for this reason--I want to see others face horror (and, preferably, grow into the kind of person who can overcome that horror) not feel horrified. Feeling horrified, myself, would completely spoil my experience of the game and make me want to huddle up in my room under a blanket for an hour to get my emotions back to normal.

Great example: I played in a one-shot Alien tabletop game. It's a little weird because everyone gets a pregen character to work with (sort of like Betrayal at the House on the Hill), which has specific defined goals and such. Mine was actually a corporate infiltrator pretending to be just an ordinary worker--she was driven, focused, and ruthless, but an excellent deep-cover agent. Very different from me. But it was very interesting playing that character. Nobody guessed what my character's real motives were--getting out with genetic/tissue samples of the xenomorph--and I tried to balance that ruthlessness and intelligence against the expected appearance of someone who was "just" a mining-ship crewman. When I finally revealed my true motives after the one-shot was over, everyone was shocked, though some of that is simply that I don't.

Actually watching a movie like the original Alien? Yeah, not my speed. Portraying a character trying to simultaneously show incredible steel, while also pretending to be someone else, while escaping from a xenomorph? Actually pretty awesome.

The fact that I, personally, wasn't feeling what my character was, but could still feel connected to a person having those feelings, was precisely what made it worth doing in the first place. I don't want to feel horrified. But it's fascinating to peer through the persona--the mask--of someone horrified.

To me this reads that you just do not want to genuinely roleplay characters in difficult situations. Being immersed in to their viewpoint and feelings at least some shadow of their feelings is the whole point of roleplaying to me. It is like with horror movies. The whole bloody point is to be scared! If you don't want to be scared, don't watch horror movies, and don't play horror games. But creating some artificial buffer between you and the character so that you won't get scared is just ruining the purpose of the whole thing and arguing that this is somehow good design is just utterly bizarre.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Well, are we talking magical madness or no? A magical effect overrides the senses (like the confusion spell), so no issues there.

I'm not a big fan mundane madness checks, but if I have to, I prefer to tell the player what they are feeling (you feel dizzy and lightheaded, like you want to pass out) rather than dictate the action (you fall unconscious because your brain can't handle it). I'm a bigger fan of stress systems; less ableist.

I see.
We use the Sanity ability score for first time exposure to the weird and wonderful - so not always magical.
I've introduced

• Additional conditions such as Hesitation (disadvantage on initiative) ...etc;
• Age increase (d12 for months) or if severe (1d4 years)
• Madness Conditions
• A heightened level of Fear such as a Phobia (phobia to use an item as an example)

I like your idea about feeling dizzy and lightheaded.
I think I will incorporate these soft touches with the option if the character wishes to continue they risk the heavier the penalties.

So for instance, in our last session a character Identified these blood-rubies that imprisoned creatures/entities unseen before by the party from the non-material plane. Each blood-ruby could to be thrown against a hard surface along with whispering a particular arcane word to release the creature/entity within it, which would act autonomously (i.e. introducing an agent of chaos into a situation). The ruby would shatter, so the item is a consumable.

This exposure to the gem and creature/entity with the use of the Identify spell required a Sanity check (this was known to the players beforehand via a character arcana investigation of the blood-ruby surmising its purpose).
Failure of the Sanity check introduced a phobia to the caster, being they would not use the blood-ruby. [That is how it was]
Failure of the Sanity check introduced a phobia to the caster, being they would not easily use the blood-ruby. [That is what I would change it to]

Soft Touch: Should the caster with the phobia attempt to use the blood-ruby despite their phobia they would require be required to make a Wisdom save (5 + challenge rating of the creature) or be unable to overcome their phobia in that moment.
Repeated attempts before a Long Rest would increase the DC by 5 for each attempt.
A Long Rest refreshes the DC.