D&D 5E (2014) DM imposed restrictions to the game (+)

[AlViking]

So if your character does not exist as part of the world capable of being influenced in ways like the brief selector extremely reasonable but endless influences you quoted are you declaring that it is creature (sub)type Aberration or outsider who flows through the world in a way that forces it to warp around them rather than existing as part of the world? Given how often someone has declared that the gm needs to talk to players and get every possible rule change or ruling cleared prior to play i would say that it's very much justified expecting you to explain how often that you @Crimson Longinus make that expectation clear in session zero prior to joining the game, can't say I've ever heard of a player doing that.

The DM describes the scenario and the player decides how the character is affected, not the DM.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The DM describes the scenario and the player decides how the character is affected, not the DM.

the mechanics of the scenario should be setting a baseline for how the character is affected before the player adds specifics

 

[AlViking]

the mechanics of the scenario should be setting a baseline for how the character is affected before the character adds specifics

Not in 5e and not in the game I want to play.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So you don't declare your expectation to play an outsider/ Aberration in session zero?

Given I am not planning to do that, no. And no, I also do not announce that I expect that my character cannot be forced by the mechanics to react in certain way aside a few mostly magical exceptions, as that is the RAW, thus the expected baseline.

It's telling that you don't seem to extend that obligation of "work" to the player who wants a level of "control" over their PC that the PC no longer exists as part of the world. In fact you openly reject that the player might even be expected to with statements like the above quote assigning it exclusively to the GM.

I fully expect the players to create characters that are believable people with goals, desires, values, fears and beliefs and I expect them to roleplay them honestly and react to the things the GM presents. I just do not believe that if they fail to do so this is an issue that can be fixed by the GM railroading them via the rules to play like the GM wants. Rather it is matter that should be discussed OOC, and ultimately if it cannot be resolved, it is the time to find better players.

 

[Remathilis]

I want, when i say ‘a thousand tiny spiders swarm out of the bush, roll me a WIS save VS fear’ the players don’t get to say ‘nah, my character isn’t feeling that afraid of spiders today’, i do agree what they could potentially say is ‘hey GM, given my character is a drow who has grown up in a culture who both interacts with and worships spiders in our daily life as the patron animal of our culture’s goddess, i’d like to argue they wouldn’t be scared by this’ but that’s not the player just deciding their character won’t be scared.

Ok. I failed my fear save. What happens NOW? Explain what happens. Do I get to decide how my character reacts to the fear? Do you roll randomly on a chart? Do you just TELL me what my character does? Please, advise what happens next...

 

[AlViking]

Given I am not planning to do that, no. And no, I also do not announce that I expect that my character cannot be forced by the mechanics to react in certain way aside a few mostly magical exceptions, as that is the RAW, thus the expected baseline.



I fully expect the players to create characters that are believable people with goals, desires, values, fears and beliefs and I expect them to roleplay them honestly and react to the things the GM presents. I just do not believe that if they fail to do so this is an issue that can be fixed by the GM railroading them via the rules to play like the GM wants. Rather it is matter that should be discussed OOC, and ultimately if it cannot be resolved, it is the time to find better players.

I remember playing the Alien Isolation videogame that I got after reading reviews about how tense and frightening it was. The "scary" parts were just boring. Same with a Resident Evil game I picked up when it was on sale.

No game, no matter how well done can make a person feel anything even if most people will react that way. So if I wanted to do a Ravenloft style campaign with a building sense of dread I'd discuss it with my players first to make sure they'll buy into the premise. I might also add some homebrew supernatural effects, but like with all homebrew I'd get the player's buy-in first.

Anyway, my point is that while many people may find some situations terrifying there's not really any way of knowing if a specific individual will be frightened or what their reaction will be. Many people strike out when they're frightened instead of running away - even when running away would be the logical choice. I had a player who was high intelligence low wisdom absent-minded professor wizard. The guy ran him as just being clueless about danger, more than once the rest of the party had to drag him away from danger because he just didn't get it and had just enough of a sense of self-preservation to not commit suicide by monster. A swarm of spiders? The character's response might go something like "Those are black and yellow cave spiders, quite unusual for there to be so many of them at one time. We may have just disturbed a nest, how fascinating!" His PC being frightened of spiders would have been completely out of character.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Anyway, my point is that while many people may find some situations terrifying there's not really any way of knowing if a specific individual will be frightened or what their reaction will be. Many people strike out when they're frightened instead of running away - even when running away would be the logical choice. I had a player who was high intelligence low wisdom absent-minded professor wizard. The guy ran him as just being clueless about danger, more than once the rest of the party had to drag him away from danger because he just didn't get it and had just enough of a sense of self-preservation to not commit suicide by monster. A swarm of spiders? The character's response might go something like "Those are black and yellow cave spiders, quite unusual for there to be so many of them at one time. We may have just disturbed a nest, how fascinating!" His PC being frightened of spiders would have been completely out of character.

Right! And that is an interesting characterisation, and the player should be allowed to play that way without having to fight the GM and the mechanics all the time for basic agency over their own character.

 

[Remathilis]

the mechanics of the scenario should be setting a baseline for how the character is affected before the player adds specifics

You fail your wisdom save. You are overcome with lust and cannot do anything but think of ravaging the NPC.

You fail your wisdom save. You are overcome with bloodlust and cannot resist wanting to murder the NPC.

You fail your wisdom save. You are overcome with greed and cannot help but want to steal the item in front of you.

You fail your wisdom save. You are overcome with cowardice and are willing to abandon your longtime friends and companions to save your own skin.

Am I getting the mechanics of the scenario correct and only have to worry about what wiity dialogue I'm adding?

 

[Bae'zel]

The only time I tell a player what their character is thinking is when the setting has a lot of established lore that their CHARACTER would know, but that I’m positive that the PLAYER wouldn’t know.

Example, introducing the Warhammer 40K setting to people unfamiliar with it. I’d be, like “you recognize that red robed priest as a Tech Priest: based on your character’s background, they’d know that these guys are blah blah blah…”

No one likes lore dumps, so I inform players as we play.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Ok. I failed my fear save. What happens NOW? Explain what happens. Do I get to decide how my character reacts to the fear? Do you roll randomly on a chart? Do you just TELL me what my character does? Please, advise what happens next...

you can't move closer to the source of your fear and you have disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks while it's it your line of sight, and whatever else fearful response you want your character to act out, but you don't get to just DECIDE to not be afraid.