DMing COUNSEL REQUESTED

[Cherub]

Dear Fellow DMs,

I recently encountered a situation that was partly of my making, and in my efforts to rectify it with options and middle-ground solutions that the players could provide me with, I've encountered initial reactions from players that bordered on the downright rude, even tho I managed to preserve all semblance of common courtesy in all my communications with them, to date, until the most recent few exchanges...without skirting around the issue, I will spill it out in brief for your wise counsel:

Its been 2 plus years since I ran a game for my former group due to the fact that I have been stationed overseas for work...I figured that since I am soon due for a home-leave for a few weeks I run a game for them before I leave for my next destination...also to give me an excuse to get involved with D&D after such a long hiatus...they last stopped play at around 11-13 levels...There was a request to play a higher level game this time around since I have avoided running a game higher than 14th Lev in the several years that I have managed this group...it was proposed that they play at around 15 levels...so i figured what the heck...despite my reservations about high lev games...i thot it might be time to break out of my comfort zone and take up the challenge...so after a quick reference of the PHB...i figured 15th Lev equals to 105,000 XP...using that as a basis, I asked them to elevate their respective characters based on that figure...little did i realise that in so doing, a multi-class PC can now effectively divide his XP and levels such that he can effectively play an Epic Level PC; for instance a 10th Lev / 11th Lev character which adds up to (45,000 / 55,000) 100,000 XP...now after some heated discussion, I have decided to accept my oversight and go with what I'd initially acceded to (i.e. 105,000 XP)... (assuming I have not overlooked any SRD Rule and my reasoning thus far is true to the core rules) (it has been close to 2 and a half years since I last DMed)

I am now in a bit of a quandry , coz I have planned about a 3rd of the game pitched at CR15-18, but now I have to pretty much go back to ground zero and effectively start from scratch all over again with a new plot line...and I have have little or no experience in DMing anything higher than 14th Lev...I would like to tap into the rich wellspring that bubbles in these forum pages for plot ideas and hooks and possible encounters that I could use to weave a game that will keep them intrigued and challenged...I dont want the game to become a series of hostile encounters just to keep them challenged...I am toying with the possibility of going extra-planar just to keep them challenged...

The game setting is based in Forgotten Realms...I'd introduced a dark and shadowy organisation thats over-taken the Zhentarim during their mid-levels...which is only known to them as the Cabal...The Elves of Evermeet are starting to Return to Faerun...They have helped the kingdom of Cormyr and Deepingdale to some significant extent during the bulk of their previous games...the PCs are composed of a human Paladin, an Elven Wizard, an Elven Ranger/Archer type, and a human War-Priest...one or more of them are close to dabbling with Lev 26 due to my oversight...

This is a generall call for counsel and suggestions by those who have gone before me into the misty realm of Epic Level games (note: I do not own the Epic Level Handbook and as far as possible except for the effective Levels / CRs of PCs and NPCs I would like to stay away from the contents of that manual and concept)...

Let me have your thoughts and ideas...

 

[dvvega]

multi-class PC can now effectively divide his XP and levels such that he can effectively play an Epic Level PC; for instance a 10th Lev / 11th Lev character which adds up to (45,000 / 55,000) 100,000 XP

Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5 edition D&D? If so then the above statement is incorrect. Multiclassing doesn't split XP. At each level gain, you take a level of whatever class you desire and that is it. You have given them 14th level experience so their total levels will be 14.

The rest of your quandry disappears when you read the rules regarding experience and level advancement in the PHB.

D

 

[Eternalknight]

i figured 15th Lev equals to 105,000 XP...using that as a basis, I asked them to elevate their respective characters based on that figure...little did i realise that in so doing, a multi-class PC can now effectively divide his XP and levels such that he can effectively play an Epic Level PC; for instance a 10th Lev / 11th Lev character which adds up to (45,000 / 55,000) 100,000 XP..

Not how it works. Track experience as a whole for the character, not seperately for each class.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

a multi-class PC can now effectively divide his XP and levels such that he can effectively play an Epic Level PC; for instance a 10th Lev / 11th Lev character which adds up to (45,000 / 55,000) 100,000 XP...

Are you playing 3rd Edition or 3.5 D&D, or an earlier edition?

If you're playing any version of 3.x, then the above statement is false. You do not start at the bottom of the experience chart if you take a second class. The number of classes you take, (setting aside any xp penalties you might gain from excessive multiclassing,) is immaterial to how much xp it takes to get to the next level.

For instance.

PC1 is a fighter3, and has 3,000xp. He will need to earn an additional 3,000xp to gain his next level, regardless of whether he chooses to take another level of fighter (making him a fighter4) or a level in sorcerer (making him a fighter3/sorcerer1).

PC2 is a rogue1/ranger1. He has 1000xp. He will need to earn 2,000xp more to gain his third class level, the exact same amount a wizard2 would need to earn to become a wizard3.

Experience requirements are determined by character level, not separated by individual classes.

This means that all the PCs in your game should have 15 class levels regardless of if they single- or multi-class. So you might see a Wizard15, a Paladin15, and a Barbarian2/Fighter13. But you will not be seeing any Cleric10/Fighter11's, as that is a 21st-level character, requiring the xp of a 21st-level character.

The only exception to this is if the wizard buys heavily into item creation. In which case he may wind up being a Wizard14 with a metric ton of magic items.

 

[Zelligars Apprentice]

...so after a quick reference of the PHB...i figured 15th Lev equals to 105,000 XP...using that as a basis, I asked them to elevate their respective characters based on that figure...little did i realise that in so doing, a multi-class PC can now effectively divide his XP and levels such that he can effectively play an Epic Level PC; for instance a 10th Lev / 11th Lev character which adds up to (45,000 / 55,000) 100,000 XP...

What edition of D&D are you using? If you are using 1st or 2nd, then you have it right. However, this is NOT the case in 3rd edition. No matter how many classes you have, a character level is a character level is a character level. So, to take your example, 105,000 experience points equals 15th level. They can have as many classes as they like (subject to favored class restrictions, of course), as long as the levels of all their classes add up to 15.

Does that clear things up?

EDIT: Shouldn't have bothered, three people beat me to it. Ah, well. Given all our replies, I hope you understand the point, and that it helps. Good luck!

 

[Cherub]

Not how it works. Track experience as a whole for the character, not seperately for each class.

EternalKnight & Dvvega, Thanks for your quick response...guess the fact that I havent played for 2 plus years has come across quite glaringly...if its not too much of a bother...could you please point to me to the page where its states that the levels are not to be aggregated...thanks, heaps!

 

[Turjan]

I asked them to elevate their respective characters based on that figure...little did i realise that in so doing, a multi-class PC can now effectively divide his XP and levels such that he can effectively play an Epic Level PC; for instance a 10th Lev / 11th Lev character which adds up to (45,000 / 55,000) 100,000 XP...now after some heated discussion, I have decided to accept my oversight and go with what I'd initially acceded to (i.e. 105,000 XP)... (assuming I have not overlooked any SRD Rule and my reasoning thus far is true to the core rules) (it has been close to 2 and a half years since I last DMed)

What version of D&D are you playing? With 105,000 XP you start with level 15. A multiclass character with 105,000 XP could be something like 11/4 or 8/7, but never ever 10/11. The character level is the combined levels of all his classes. The XP table applies to character level, no matter how these levels are divided on classes.

Edit: I'm slow today !

 

[Cherub]

Thanks, All! I am playing 3.5. Could someone point to me to the right page of the PHB / DMG that states this?

 

[Turjan]

Page 59/60. On page 60 is a paragraph called "How multiclassing works".

Edit: What level means is explained on page 59, directly after "Class and level features".

 

[Cherub]

Page 59/60. On page 60 is a paragraph called "How multiclassing works".

Thanks, Turjan! The resolution to this has been far more rapid than I imagined. Thank, Heavens and Thanks to all that piped in! Cheers!