D&D General DMing Theory #2: Strong and Fast

You seem to think I’m suggesting something I’m not. My “proposal” is to do whatever floats your boat. What I personally do at my table is allow players to roleplay their characters however they want regardless of their ability scores; the way the scores affect their odds of success at tasks is enough, the game doesn’t need me policing roleplaying based on them too. Someone asked me why the ability scores are called what they are if they don’t affect anything other than the math, and “because that’s what they’ve always been called” is objectively the correct answer to that question. I am not saying they shouldn’t be called that, I am not proposing we change their names, I am not criticizing anyone who likes that they’re named that. I was asked a simple question and I gave a factual answer to it. That’s all.

I think some descriptors like nimble is closely tied to dexterity. I want ability scores (and proficiencies) to matter in the game. If someone describes their character as looking like a WWE pro wrestler that looks like Dwayne Johnson and they have an 8 strength it would cause cognitive dissonance.

Otherwise I did misunderstand a bit but for the most part I was agreeing with you. I don't think ability scores tell me much about who the character is. For me I describe my character and I only think ability scores after the fact.

I do have a bit of a pet peeve when things like ability scores are called "Sacred cows kept around for the grognards." I mean, having numbers from 3-20 or above may look like a sacred cow at first glance and we could just switch over to using the bonuses instead so ability scores go from -4 to +5. But a lot of people have issues with negative numbers so it's a bit odd conceptually. A more logical system would be ability scores go from 1 to 10 but that has a lot of other side effects with how we calculate everything else. It could be done of course but it would require a big change to the game's math for minimal gain.

We certainly still have sacred cows mooing in the background but a lot of them have been slaughtered over the years or relegated into the background like alignment. In my opinion ability scores are pretty fundamental to the game and not easily replaced. There are still oddities in D&D that could easily addressed - like studded leather that never existed - but others like strict alignment restrictions or druids not wearing metal armor have gone away.
 

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I do have a bit of a pet peeve when things like ability scores are called "Sacred cows kept around for the grognards." I mean, having numbers from 3-20 or above may look like a sacred cow at first glance and we could just switch over to using the bonuses instead so ability scores go from -4 to +5. But a lot of people have issues with negative numbers so it's a bit odd conceptually. A more logical system would be ability scores go from 1 to 10 but that has a lot of other side effects with how we calculate everything else. It could be done of course but it would require a big change to the game's math for minimal gain.
I'll mention again that rolling something based around 4d6k3 (even if they actually reroll a lot) for ability scores is extremely popular among people who haven't been alive long enough to be grognards, and that only generates the 3-18 range (bumping up to 20 with race/background and ASI bonuses). I think there's a lot of people who aren't old-timers and are really keen on having something like the current ability system, and thinking of them as a relic kept around only for people who have been playing for a long time is mistaken.
 

I'll mention again that rolling something based around 4d6k3 (even if they actually reroll a lot) for ability scores is extremely popular among people who haven't been alive long enough to be grognards, and that only generates the 3-18 range (bumping up to 20 with race/background and ASI bonuses). I think there's a lot of people who aren't old-timers and are really keen on having something like the current ability system, and thinking of them as a relic kept around only for people who have been playing for a long time is mistaken.

All I can say is that I've never cared for rolling for stats and have not played in a game that required it for a very, very long time. Rolling for stats might be okay for a one-shot or mini-campaign of only a few sessions but not in the long run. I've always disliked it and I've seen way too much variation in results over the years.

I want to play the character I want, not what I'm forced to play because of a one time luck of the draw. If I still wanted randomness there are plenty of ways to do that without rolling for ability scores such as creating a dozen arrays from point buy and rolling randomly to see which one I use or even what order.

Fortunately the options are out there if people want them even if I've never seen any demand for rolling.
 

I’ve fully come around on rolling for stats, because in my experience players tend to find the process fun and exciting and like when they get high stats from it. For a long time I was pretty uncomfortable with the risk of players feeling bad about unbalanced stats, but that has never been a problem since I adopted the policy “you can roll a new set of 6 as many times as you want until you get a set you like.”
 

I’ve fully come around on rolling for stats, because in my experience players tend to find the process fun and exciting and like when they get high stats from it. For a long time I was pretty uncomfortable with the risk of players feeling bad about unbalanced stats, but that has never been a problem since I adopted the policy “you can roll a new set of 6 as many times as you want until you get a set you like.”

One way of doing it.

Its how we had a half decent monk in 3E. He had great stats so MAD wasnt a problem.

Side effect of point buy. Sone concepts are better with higher stats (beyond higher stats always better).
 
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Yeah, this is why I’m pretty ability score radical. If you want your druid to be impulsive and nimble? Ok, they’re impulsive and nimble. The ability scores are just numbers, don’t worry about what they “mean.” They mean nothing more and nothing less than their effect on your odds of success at their associated rolls.
100% this. Your ability scores are only required for rolls that are specified by the rules. Of course, most players choose to use them as an overall reflection of their character’s aptitudes and behaviours, but they don’t have to.
 

I've been waiting for this response. I really love that this works for some people, but it doesn't jive right with me. My mind rebels against it.

"If ability scores only have mechanical meaning, why name like they do carry qualitative meaning?"

"Why not call them Abilities A, B, C, D, E and F - or name them after different legumes: Back Bean, Peanut, Lentil, etc.?"

Those are types of things my mind asks, and I have no answers to provide it. So I feel dirty ignoring the meaning behind the names of ability scores. I feel I'm acting dishonestly, and I hate wrapping my identity up in dishonest living (to my own psychological and financial detriment).

But really, I feel this is a fair way to play the game, even if something stops me from playing that way. It'd save me a lot of time and energy if I could properly wrap my head around your perspective.
See, I don’t have this problem because I see students all the time that are brilliant in some ways and not at all in others, or who can light up a stage but be shy introverts off of it, etc. I have a current student who is huge for his age but physically awkward with no ability or inclination to apply his strength. And so on.

There is not a single student that I could sum up as “18 intelligence” or whatever. In point of fact, calling the attributes “black bean, etc.” would be less misleading.

Edit: I still use the current names, but with the understanding that they are only meaningful in the context of the rules. If you want your 8 intelligence character to be mostly brilliant, that’s fine with me. They’re just not brilliant when it comes to arcana rolls, etc.
 
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People like it thst way. Its the only reason you need.

I've been hearing about how bad D&D is since the mid 90s. I started 1993.
I think people like it that way because Gygax didn't exactly get creative with stats.

Hey Gygax...

What is the stat that governs how strong you are? Strength!
What is the stat that governs how hardy your constitution is? Constitution!
What is the stat that governs how intelligent you are? Intelligence!
What is the stat that governs how wise you are? Wisdom!
What is the stat that governs how charismatic you are? Charisma!

He called them what they were and didn't go looking for obscure names for the stats. Dexterity is the odd man out, because it could have just as easily been described as agility.

It drives me crazy when I show to a game and ask...

What is the stat that governs how strong you are? Brawn!
What is the stat that governs how dexterous you are? Finesse!
What is the stat that governs how hardy your constitution is? Physique!
What is the stat that governs how intelligent you are? Cleverness!
What is the stat that governs how wise you are? Common Sense!
What is the stat that governs how charismatic you are? Flair!

Ugh! Just call the stats what they are and then differentiate your game from D&D with your rules, lore, etc.
 

I think people like it that way because Gygax didn't exactly get creative with stats.

Hey Gygax...

What is the stat that governs how strong you are? Strength!
What is the stat that governs how hardy your constitution is? Constitution!
What is the stat that governs how intelligent you are? Intelligence!
What is the stat that governs how wise you are? Wisdom!
What is the stat that governs how charismatic you are? Charisma!

He called them what they were and didn't go looking for obscure names for the stats. Dexterity is the odd man out, because it could have just as easily been described as agility.

It drives me crazy when I show to a game and ask...

What is the stat that governs how strong you are? Brawn!
What is the stat that governs how dexterous you are? Finesse!
What is the stat that governs how hardy your constitution is? Physique!
What is the stat that governs how intelligent you are? Cleverness!
What is the stat that governs how wise you are? Common Sense!
What is the stat that governs how charismatic you are? Flair!

Ugh! Just call the stats what they are and then differentiate your game from D&D with your rules, lore, etc.

Yeah. How about technical and mechanics though?
 

introduce mighty composite longbows from 3.5E back

you have 20 str and 20 dex?

congratulations, your bow now deals 1d8+10 damage.
 

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