plisnithus8
Adventurer
Roll for Combat is reporting Hasbro is planning to have DND Beyond subscriptions tiered up to $30 a month per player that will come with AI DMs (explaining the OGL, purchase of DNDB, hiring or programmers):
WotC DND Beyond AI DM
- Thread starter plisnithus8
- Start date
When the DM has to talk to the problem players and they haven't renewed their $30 subscription tier to DNDBeyond.
MichaelSomething
Legend
Given the choice between "DM the game yourself" versus "have an AI run the game" I imagine many people would pick the latter, if the DM shortage thread is any indication.
humble minion
Legend
I've been steering clear of actually watching any of the tsunami of youtube videos bandwagoning on the whole OGL/WotC issue over the last week or so, but is there any sort of actual source for this?
There's that faked photo of a powerpoint presentation from a while back which has been the original source for a lot of the rumours flying around at the moment, but I've also heard claims that the 'AI DM' rumour is actually a misreading or typo of 'AL DM,' from the adventurer's league (which is, admittedly, equally baffling).
We're going to have a LOT of rumours, hysteria, and opportunistic clout-seeking lies flying around over the next few months until WotC rolls out their next OGL and their D&DB plans publicly. It's probably best we all play pretty cautious on what we believe for a while, so WotC can't slip something nasty past us while we're getting all stressy about something completely fictional. And the atmosphere of continual crisis that is conducive to driving views is only going to ramp up the harrassment that WotC staff are experiencing.
There's that faked photo of a powerpoint presentation from a while back which has been the original source for a lot of the rumours flying around at the moment, but I've also heard claims that the 'AI DM' rumour is actually a misreading or typo of 'AL DM,' from the adventurer's league (which is, admittedly, equally baffling).
We're going to have a LOT of rumours, hysteria, and opportunistic clout-seeking lies flying around over the next few months until WotC rolls out their next OGL and their D&DB plans publicly. It's probably best we all play pretty cautious on what we believe for a while, so WotC can't slip something nasty past us while we're getting all stressy about something completely fictional. And the atmosphere of continual crisis that is conducive to driving views is only going to ramp up the harrassment that WotC staff are experiencing.
Clint_L
Hero
I doubt that you will need more than one player with the $30 tier. Right now, I pay $7 month and they give all my players access to all of my books. It's an unbelievable bargain.
But it doesn't really matter, because either people will pay, or they won't. If there's a $30 tier and everybody wants it...well, I guess it was well-priced.
But it doesn't really matter, because either people will pay, or they won't. If there's a $30 tier and everybody wants it...well, I guess it was well-priced.
Sorcerers Apprentice
Hero
So, supposedly DM's account for 80% of wotc's D&D sales. Is it really a good idea to replace your best customers with robots?
While I respect RFC for breaking the 1.1 story, I am suspicious. Does this video include any more evidence than those couple tweets that promised a bomb on Wednesday but is now backing down?
I agree. I also imagine super casual players won't care that it can't really provide much more freedom than a typical CRPG. But that would work pretty well for most WotC campaign adventures anyway.
That said, a real bonkers AI GM that pulls from every weird trope and rpghorrorstories thread and D&D meme would be GLORIOUS.
Much of the value of a human DM is the ability to respond to unexpected player decisions in a way that is consistent with the setting and that is believable in the fictional world. That kind of thing -- modeling a consistent reality -- is exactly where AI still falls down.
Moreover, the DM needs the ability to balance "apply the rules consistently" against "recognize when the rules produce nonsense outcomes and adjust accordingly." In addition to being another case of having to model a consistent reality, this is also the kind of thing that programmers struggle with, so training an AI to hit that balance will be doubly hard.
A really good team, well resourced and well led, might be able to overcome those hurdles given time. But from recent reports about internal goings-on at WotC... I very much doubt they will have those things. I think they will try to do it on the cheap and leadership will be demoralizing and destructive, and the whole thing will be a trash fire.
Moreover, the DM needs the ability to balance "apply the rules consistently" against "recognize when the rules produce nonsense outcomes and adjust accordingly." In addition to being another case of having to model a consistent reality, this is also the kind of thing that programmers struggle with, so training an AI to hit that balance will be doubly hard.
A really good team, well resourced and well led, might be able to overcome those hurdles given time. But from recent reports about internal goings-on at WotC... I very much doubt they will have those things. I think they will try to do it on the cheap and leadership will be demoralizing and destructive, and the whole thing will be a trash fire.
ValamirCleaver
Jäger aus Kurpfalz
$30/month for a not quite MMORPG? Is Wizbro’s leadership nuts?!
Are there even any MMOs that charge anything close to that? How many people do they realistically think are going to be willing to pay $30/month, that’s $360/year, for a not quite MMO?
Do they have any idea that the strength of TTRPGs are that they are only limited by one’s imagination? With this not quite MMO is it going to be that if the developers & programmers didn’t think if it your character can’t do it?
I mean, they could try making the game not suck to run.
Clint_L
Hero
People paid money for "choose a path" adventure books. They continue to pay a lot of money to play RPG video games where the AI is mostly limited to pre-scripted outcomes. ChatGPT is already so far beyond those things that it isn't even worth comparing, and it isn't even designed to work with RPGs.
I'm a teacher, and my entire profession is starting to wrestle with the existential implications of this new technology. If you think RPGs, which are much more narrowly focused, won't be profoundly altered, I think you are going to be in for a shock.
I'm a teacher, and my entire profession is starting to wrestle with the existential implications of this new technology. If you think RPGs, which are much more narrowly focused, won't be profoundly altered, I think you are going to be in for a shock.
Which is exactly why this is a questionable idea. If you want an AI to run a pre-built scenario by the book through a virtual environment, there are literally thousands of RPG video games that already do that. Heck, Wizards themselves backs two MMOs that do this, plus an adaptation of the Tomb of Annihilation board game. And if using the actual 5E rules as written is the intended appeal, there are even games that do that too (such as Solasta).
Now, to be clear, I think it's completely plausible that Wizards wants to do this, as another way to monetize players as much as they do DMs. But as with certain other recent ideas they've had, I think they may be overestimating the appeal. Especially once the novelty wears off.
Heh, something else just occurred to me. Any capability the AI has to improvise is very likely going to be exploitable, just like in proper video games. In-game actions or interactions with the AI that trigger abnormal responses, like speedrunning the party through obstacles, giving out game-breaking loot in mass quantities, routing around restrictions like attunement, using low-level summoning spells to get CR 25 allies, and so on...
LuisCarlos17f
Legend
I have got a bad feeling about this.
Even if the product was enoughly good they most of D&D players aren't rich kids wishing to spend a lot of money. We have to study or work. 30$ is expensive even for a AAA MMO. And today most of online videogames are free-to-play.
My advice is a videogame where the player creates a camp for heroes, after several quests and earning gold the heroes can build a stronghold, and later a true castle, and in the end a complete city with planar gates toward unexplored zones where new settlements can be created to start again.
I don't trust modules created totally by an AI. OH MY GOD! This sounded sci-fi some years ago! Maybe the AI could create a sketch of the story, and this to be retouched by a human DM. If this was possible, then the videogames would be creating new quests for their games thanks this AI.
They should start testing in the app of the Hero Quest.
Even if the product was enoughly good they most of D&D players aren't rich kids wishing to spend a lot of money. We have to study or work. 30$ is expensive even for a AAA MMO. And today most of online videogames are free-to-play.
My advice is a videogame where the player creates a camp for heroes, after several quests and earning gold the heroes can build a stronghold, and later a true castle, and in the end a complete city with planar gates toward unexplored zones where new settlements can be created to start again.
I don't trust modules created totally by an AI. OH MY GOD! This sounded sci-fi some years ago! Maybe the AI could create a sketch of the story, and this to be retouched by a human DM. If this was possible, then the videogames would be creating new quests for their games thanks this AI.
They should start testing in the app of the Hero Quest.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
If WotC didn't do it, someone else would (and probably will, cheaper). But I don't see it being anymore powerful than you already find in "roguelike" CRPGs.
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