D&D General Do You Use "Dungeons" In Your Game

Do You Use Dungeons In Your D&D Games?

  • No, never.

    Votes: 2 1.2%
  • Almost never.

    Votes: 2 1.2%
  • Only on rare occassion.

    Votes: 12 7.1%
  • Sometimes, but not regularaly.

    Votes: 26 15.4%
  • Yes, regularly but not exclusively.

    Votes: 81 47.9%
  • Yes, most of the time.

    Votes: 30 17.8%
  • Yes, always.

    Votes: 11 6.5%
  • I am a special snowflake.

    Votes: 5 3.0%

No way in hell am I showing them the DM-side map as, even though they think they've explored it, about 98% of the time there will still be info on there that the PCs/players don't yet know - hidden areas, notes on opponents, traps missed by sheer luck, and so on.

Most of my dungeon-style adventures are (by today's standards) somewhere between moderate-size and huge. Dark Tower* is on the larger end, and good luck navigating that place without a map...or even with a map, sometimes! And that's what I'm shooting for a lot of the time - situations where the complexity of the layout is itself a part of the challenge they have to overcome both in-character and out.

* - Jacquays' best ever, IMO; if you haven't see the original, check it out - highly recommended!
Agreed. The whole "My ChArEcTeR iS dOiNg It NOW TELLME WHAT I COULDN'T BOTHER WITH" modern expectation is entirely unreasonable and devolves the dungeon crawl towards quick time event equivalent rooms. It's also the entirely predictable result of wotc trying to shift all player responsibilities and expectations onto the gm through omission. Taking the graph paper talk from earlier in the thread as an example... there used to be many references to using graph paper in many player facing books of those however & some of them are great examples of things sorely lacking in the 5e text where the term graph paper is not even found in the 5e PHB & the 5e dmg places the use exclusively on the GM when it gets mentioned.

Aside from a copy of this book, very little is needed to play the AD&D game.
You will need some sort of character record. TSR publishes character record sheets that are quite handy and easy to use, but any sheet of paper will do. Blank paper, lined paper, or even graph paper can be used. A double-sized sheet of paper (11 = 17 inches), folded in half, is excellent. Keep your character record in pencil, because it will change frequently during the game. A good eraser is also a must. ... dice talk ...


At least one player should have a few sheets of graph paper for mapping the group’s progress. Assorted pieces of scratch paper are handy for making quick notes, for passing secret messages to other players or the DM, or for keeping track of odd bits of information that you don’t want cluttering up your character record.
Miniature figures are handy for keeping track of where everyone is in a confusing situation like a battle. These can be as elaborate or simple as you like. Some players use miniature lead or pewter figures painted to resemble their characters. Plastic soldiers, chess pieces, boardgame pawns, dice, or bits of paper can work just as well.
This is all great advice for new players because it's not oppressive in mandating any particular activity as s must but sets a floor of reasonable expectations for when a GM who says things like "why don't you.../you really should..." In regards to suggesting the players take responsibility for doing any amount of of that. From there 5e has gone to the extreme where I've seen players say "man I just want to play d&d not whatever that is" when suggested they do even the most basic of that sorta note taking/mapping.

History note from the late nineteen hundreds: Printers at home were primitive and almost unheard of till the mid/late 90s. Even then they were not particularly common till early 2000s. those old amber sheets were great sheets with a set of boxes by each weapon for precalculated d20 rolls.
Your group needs these items to play D&D.
The Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual
revised core rulebooks. (All players might want to have their own
copies of the books.)
A copy of the character sheet at the back of this book for each
player.
A battle grid. The Dungeon Master’s Guide contains one.
Miniatures to represent each character and the monsters that
challenge them.
A set of dice for each player. A set of dice includes at least one
four-sided die (d4), four six-sided dice (d6), one eight-sided die
(d8), two ten-sided dice (d10), one twelve-sided die (d12), and one
twenty-sided die (d20).
Pencils, scrap paper, and graph paper to keep notes and to map
the locations your characters will explore.
Again all reasonable things & it might look like a lot was left out, but that's more a matter of it being covered with more depth elsewhere like here:
Here are a few ways in which you can help the game go more smoothly.
Mapping: Someone should keep a map of places you explore so that
you know where you’ve been and where you have yet to explore. The
responsibility for mapping can be rotated from person to person, if more
than one player likes to do this sort of thing, but as a rule the same
person should be the mapper through a single playing session.
A map is most useful and most important when the characters are in
a dungeon setting—an environment with lots of corridors, doors, and
rooms that would be almost impossible to navigate through without a
record of what parts the characters have already explored.
To make a map, you start with a blank sheet of paper (graph paper is
best) and draw the floor plan of the dungeon as you and your group
discover it and the Dungeon Master describes what you’re seeing. For
example, when the characters come to a new, empty room, the DM
might say, “The door you have opened leads east into a room 23 feet
wide and 30 feet deep. The door is in the middle of the room’s west wall,
and you can see two other doors: one in the north wall near the corner
with the east wall, and one in the east wall about 5 feet south of the
middle.” Or, if it’s easier for you to visualize, the DM might express the
information this way: “From the north edge of the door, the wall goes
two squares north, six squares east, five squares south, six squares west,
and then north back to the door. There’s a door on the sixth square of
the north wall and on the fourth square of the east wall.”
Party Notes: It often pays to keep notes: names of NPCs the heroes
have met, treasure the group has won, secrets the characters have
learned, and so forth. The Dungeon Master might keep track of all this
information for his or her own benefit, but even so it can be handy for
you to jot down facts that might be needed later—at the least, doing this
prevents you from having to ask the Dungeon Master, “What was the
name of that old man we met in the woods last week?”
Character Notes: You should keep track of hit points, spells, and other
characteristics about your character that change during an adventure on
scratch paper. Between playing sessions, you might decide to write some
of this information directly on your character sheet—but don’t worry
about updating the sheet constantly. For instance, it would be tedious
(and could make a mess of the sheet) if you erased your character’s
current hit points and wrote in a new number every time he or she took
damage.
Going deeper to talk a little about each of those things & outright suggesting that the task be moved around between different players gives time to nicely explains the sorts of reasons to do it along with why it was both useful & reasonable.
That's a far cry from today where I've turned from discussing a quick skill check with a player (Alice) to find a second player (Bob) react in outrage at the unfairness when asked to tell us about the nasty trap their PC just triggered by him literally using his finger to explore behind the tabletop display's Fog of War "because I never said that I was walking off or anything"
Scale and Squares
The standard unit for tactical maps is the 5-foot square.
This unit is useful for miniatures and for drawing dun-
geon maps, which are usually created on graph paper.
In a fight, each Small or Medium character occupies a single 5-foot square. Larger creatures take up
more squares, and several smaller creatures fit in a
square. See Table 8–4: Creature Size and Scale, page
149 of the Player’s Handbook.
comparable to 5e's variant: playing on a grid, but gone from it is all of the player responsibilities & expectations found in earlier editions.
The 3.5 dmg & 5e dmg mention the GM using graph paper to create dungeons maps & so on quite a bit & seem reasonably comparable in those areas, but in some ways that just reinforces the idea that players have no responsibilities whatsoever with regards to notes mapping & so on.

TL; DR version: wotc could do a lot better in supporting the use of tactical grid combat/exploration and d&d has done so throughout the editions up until recent editions seemed to buy into the myth that anything but totm is a bank breaking expense akin to Warhammer or something.
 
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The characters might map, or just have better sense of space they're actually in than the players that are just sitting at the table, and that can be represented by the GM showing the players the areas of the map their characters have seen.

Besides, I don't have dungeons so large that it feasible to get lost in them, or if I do, they're dealt in more abstract manner and no one has full map in the first place.

There's a huge difference between being somewhere physically and someone describing the scene to you. I don't think our original group way back in the day had the players draw maps more than once or twice, it just wasn't worth the overhead.
 

There's a huge difference between being somewhere physically and someone describing the scene to you. I don't think our original group way back in the day had the players draw maps more than once or twice, it just wasn't worth the overhead.

Right. The GM showing the players the map is simulating the characters actually being there and seeing the space with their own eyes!
 

I don't think mapping absolutism is especially helpful here. We can acknowledge that different folks prefer different things in their games with resorting to insults and such.
 

I don't think mapping absolutism is especially helpful here. We can acknowledge that different folks prefer different things in their games with resorting to insults and such.

I don't think I insulted anyone. I said I find mapping to be tedious waste of time. I also feel the same way about jigsaw puzzles. But a lot of people like those, and it is also certainly conceivable that some people might find mapping fun as well. It was just about personal preference, though in this case I think this preference is quite widely shared one, and thus mapping is pretty much extinct in more recent editions of D&D.

But I think this goes into what the poll fails to capture. Yes, a lot of people still use something that can be in good faith be described as a dungeon in D&D, but they are still quite different from more old school dungeons, and perhaps even more importantly they're approached differently than they would have been in authentic paleo-D&D. So there has been a shift, but it is not about whether dungeons are used but about how they're used.
 

I don't think I insulted anyone. I said I find mapping to be tedious waste of time. I also feel the same way about jigsaw puzzles. But a lot of people like those, and it is also certainly conceivable that some people might find mapping fun as well. It was just about personal preference, though in this case I think this preference is quite widely shared one, and thus mapping is pretty much extinct in more recent editions of D&D.

But I think this goes into what the poll fails to capture. Yes, a lot of people still use something that can be in good faith be described as a dungeon in D&D, but they are still quite different from more old school dungeons, and perhaps even more importantly they're approached differently than they would have been in authentic paleo-D&D. So there has been a shift, but it is not about whether dungeons are used but about how they're used.

Yep. Meanwhile some people (myself included) would say that dungeons are not really used by many people any more because what people now call dungeons don't really match what old school dungeons and dungeon delving were all about. The game isn't better or worse for it, just different.
 

No way in hell am I showing them the DM-side map as, even though they think they've explored it, about 98% of the time there will still be info on there that the PCs/players don't yet know - hidden areas, notes on opponents, traps missed by sheer luck, and so on.
I'm the same, half (maybe not half, but a fair amount) of my adventure is on the maps as that's where a lot of notes and things are shown. The players don't even need to put too much effort into the maps, I typically just use circles or squares for rooms and lines between them, I don't worry about getting the dimensions right. For any doors we haven't opened or pathways we haven't gone down yet I just add some sort of notation.

I think perhaps some of the change in mapping comes from online play where the dungeon is typically shown as the players explore.
 
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I don't put that info on the map.
Given the map is for my use only, of course I'm going to put all the relevant info on it.
Or if could not remember it, I'd print a separate player version without it.
If the players want a map they can make their own, just like the characters would be doing in the fiction, with the potential for errors and miscounting distance etc. very much a part of the challenge.
And then I just cover with a paper the areas they have not explored. Though what I usually do these days, is that the initial map is just in my head, and just draw it on the battlemap as needed.
I long ago learned the hard way - repeatedly! - that my trying to remember any map, or invent one on the fly in my head, is a fast-track to disaster in terms of consistency and things fitting together properly. It usually goes something like:

DM (me): As you approach, you see the building is one story, rectangular, about 70 feet long by maybe 50 feet wide.
Players: [go in and explore]
DM (me): [narrates a 10-ft wide hallway down the long-axis middle with 3 20x30 rooms on each side]
Player: Hey, that makes the building 90 feet long and you said it was only 70.
DM (me): <facepalm> Crap.

In my view, as DM I've there made an utterly inexcusable idiot-level mistake. There's no way the PCs could mistake 90 feet for 70 feet when viewing the place from outside, and I've misled the players only because I was too lazy to sketch out a quick map.
And of course if one plays online, digital maps have all sort of options for fog of war and otherwise hiding stuff.
Indeed. I'm talking in-person play here.
That sounds utterly miserable to me. Such tedious micromanaging just is not fun for me.
Challenges aren't supposed to be fun. If they were, they wouldn't be challenges. And if it means the players have to do some work, so be it.

I take it this means you also don't track food, ammo, etc.
 

Okay. I finally voted, "Sometimes, but not regularly." I'm only counting actual dungeons(ruined castles, dungeons, etc.) and not haunted forests the party wants to clear, thieves' guilds the party is invading to steal back something from, etc. where there are still enclosed borders and preset hazards and creatures. If I broaden dungeon to include all of those other things, I'd have to change the vote to, "Yes, most of the time."
 

Okay. I finally voted, "Sometimes, but not regularly." I'm only counting actual dungeons(ruined castles, dungeons, etc.) and not haunted forests the party wants to clear, thieves' guilds the party is invading to steal back something from, etc. where there are still enclosed borders and preset hazards and creatures. If I broaden dungeon to include all of those other things, I'd have to change the vote to, "Yes, most of the time."
So -- and this is just a question and not judgemental in any way -- for you, what separates the "ruined castle" from the "thieves guild hideout" when deciding what a dungeon is?

Again -- honest question.
 

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