Does a full attack have to go in a specific order?

[NewJeffCT]

The players in my group are going up against a marilith this Friday night. The demon will be able to do a full attack on at least a few party members in the first round (I gave them a cliffhanger ending last time around...)

From the SRD, a marilith's full attack is listed as:
Primary longsword +25/+20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+9/19–20) and 5 longswords +25 melee (2d6+4/19–20) and tail slap +22 melee (4d6+4)...

Does the marilith have to go: primary longsword, then each of her 5 other arms, and then a tail slap in the order listed?

Or, can the marilith do the tail slap first, grapple with her tail as a free action with Improved Grab, and then continue on with the rest of her attacks? Because the marilith is grappling with its tail, would it be able to use its arms to attack the grappled foe? (If it can't do this, it won't matter anyhow and would just use the grapple last)

 

[frankthedm]

The players in my group are going up against a marilith this Friday night. The demon will be able to do a full attack on at least a few party members in the first round (I gave them a cliffhanger ending last time around...)

From the SRD, a marilith's full attack is listed as:
Primary longsword +25/+20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+9/19–20) and 5 longswords +25 melee (2d6+4/19–20) and tail slap +22 melee (4d6+4)...

Does the marilith have to go: primary longsword, then each of her 5 other arms, and then a tail slap in the order listed?

I can't remeber the source, but I think intinerative atatcks must happen in order -0, -5, -10 then -15, but offhand multiweapons and natural attacks don't have that issue.

Or, can the marilith do the tail slap first, grapple with her tail as a free action with Improved Grab, and then continue on with the rest of her attacks? Because the marilith is grappling with its tail, would it be able to use its arms to attack the grappled foe? (If it can't do this, it won't matter anyhow and would just use the grapple last)

Unless the marilith takes the -20 to her grapple check to just use her tail for the grapple, she would not be able to take any other attacks.

 

[risner]

Does the marilith have to go: primary longsword, then each of her 5 other arms, and then a tail slap in the order listed?

There is no explicit rule stating what order the attacks are made. It is largely a DM call as to how he wishes to demand the order. I, (for one DM), don't require attacks to be made in any order whatsoever. So your tail slap first would be fine by me. Seems you are the DM, so it's up to you. Whatever you do, the players have the option of doing it the same way.

When grappling, you can use natural weapons to attack your grappling target at -4, so all your attacks would be at -4 vs them with no Dex bonus. If they have 20 or greater Dex that is a net +1 for you.
The -20 rule is only if you wish to be consider "not grappling" during the grapple.

 

[frankthedm]

There is no explicit rule stating what order the attacks are made. It is largely a DM call as to how he wishes to demand the order. I, (for one DM), don't require attacks to be made in any order whatsoever. So your tail slap first would be fine by me. Seems you are the DM, so it's up to you. Whatever you do, the players have the option of doing it the same way.

Well, the BAB section does call out the extra attacks as second, third and forth, though its not very specific otherwise.

Base Attack Bonus
A base attack bonus is an attack roll bonus derived from character class and level or creature type and Hit Dice (or combinations thereof). Base attack bonuses increase at different rates for different character classes and creature types. A second attack is gained when a base attack bonus reaches +6, a third with a base attack bonus of +11 or higher, and a fourth with a base attack bonus of +16 or higher. Base attack bonuses gained from different sources, such as when a character is a multiclass character, stack.

When grappling, you can use natural weapons to attack your grappling target at -4, so all your attacks would be at -4 vs them with no Dex bonus. If they have 20 or greater Dex that is a net +1 for you.
The -20 rule is only if you wish to be consider "not grappling" during the grapple.

If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Well, the BAB section does call out the extra attacks as second, third and forth, though its not very specific otherwise.


If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

I think it's implied in the marilith descriptor that it grapples with its tail only - "to use this ability, a marilith must hit with its tail slap attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an AoO. If it succeeds on the grapple check, it can constrict."

 

[frankthedm]

I think it's implied in the marilith descriptor that it grapples with its tail only - "to use this ability, a marilith must hit with its tail slap attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an AoO. If it succeeds on the grapple check, it can constrict."

Monsters with improved grab have it specified what attacks can trigger improved grab.

Ooze :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, a black pudding must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of ...
Ooze :: d20srd.org

Tarrasque :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without ...
Tarrasque :: d20srd.org

Astral Construct :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, the construct must hit with its slam attack. A construct can use this ability only on a target that is at least one size smaller than ...
Astral Construct :: d20srd.org

Ankheg :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, an ankheg must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of ...
Ankheg :: d20srd.org

Devastation Vermin :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, the devastation scorpion must hit with its claw attack. If it gets a hold, it hangs on and squeezes. ...
Devastation Vermin :: d20srd.org

Dinosaur :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, a tyrannosaurus must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free ...
Dinosaur :: d20srd.org

Behir :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, a behir must hit a creature of any size with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking ...
Behir :: d20srd.org


If the critter chooses to use its full grapple bonus, it is putting full attention to the improved grab and thus suffering all grapple related issues.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Monsters with improved grab have it specified what attacks can trigger improved grab.

Ooze :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, a black pudding must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of ...
Ooze :: d20srd.org

Tarrasque :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without ...
Tarrasque :: d20srd.org

Astral Construct :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, the construct must hit with its slam attack. A construct can use this ability only on a target that is at least one size smaller than ...
Astral Construct :: d20srd.org

Ankheg :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, an ankheg must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of ...
Ankheg :: d20srd.org

Devastation Vermin :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, the devastation scorpion must hit with its claw attack. If it gets a hold, it hangs on and squeezes. ...
Devastation Vermin :: d20srd.org

Dinosaur :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, a tyrannosaurus must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free ...
Dinosaur :: d20srd.org

Behir :: d20srd.org
To use this ability, a behir must hit a creature of any size with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking ...
Behir :: d20srd.org


If the critter chooses to use its full grapple bonus, it is putting full attention to the improved grab and thus suffering all grapple related issues.

Thanks, so as part of the full attack, if the marilith does all of its normal attacks with its longswords in its 6 arms, and ends with the tail slap, it would be taking serious grapple penalties to then attempt its free action grapple because it hit with its tail slap.

 

[frankthedm]

Thanks, so as part of the full attack, if the marilith does all of its normal attacks with its longswords in its 6 arms, and ends with the tail slap, it would be taking serious grapple penalties to then attempt its free action grapple because it hit with its tail slap.

The Marilith can take its entire attack allotment provided the last attack is the tail to trigger improved grab. It can chose to take the -20 if it wants to, but it does not HAVE to take the -20. If for some reason the marilith wants to start with the tail, it could, but that would be far less advantageous.

 

[NewJeffCT]

The Marilith can take its entire attack allotment provided the last attack is the tail to trigger improved grab. It can chose to take the -20 if it wants to, but it does not HAVE to take the -20. If for some reason the marilith wants to start with the tail, it could, but that would be far less advantageous.

Thanks again. I was trying to think if it would be an advantage to the marilith to use its tail slap first (the demon is smarter than me, after all). However, it could use the tail slap last and then grapple as a free action, leaving it able to constrict the grappled foe its next round, possibly knocking them unconscious.

 

[Deset Gled]

Whatever you do, the players have the option of doing it the same way.

It won't come up often. "If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest." The case at hand only concerns the marilith's natural attacks, which do not follow this rule.

I've always had monsters use natural attacks from highest to lowest, the same as BAB attacks. AFAIK, the rules don't explicitely state that this is required, but it just keeps things simple.