D&D 5E (2024) Does your table use concentration with Ready a Spell?

[ECMO3]

So the player, after being screwed by the GM through encounter design and enforcing this rule, should use a limited ressource (tactical mind) to use an action, which the GM easily can completly screw to make it do absolutely nothing? What should hiding even achieve? Fighter is the character which should be normally the one which wants to be attacked over the allies.

Well I did not screw anyone, but yes that is the idea.

Hiding was an example, and if successful it would give the character advantage on their next attack in addition co keeping the PC from being attacked.

The player has the agency to take any action allowed in the game using the rules for that action.

Well its the GMs job to highlight players with their options chosen and make the game feel good for them.

Is it? I don't remember that from the DMG, although I do remember it saying a DM should be fair and flexible and treat players in a fair impartial manner.

It is not impartial if I let one player break the rules.

Also dont forget: Encounter variety is a tool to make encounters more fun, not a goal by itself.

Most of the table seemed pretty happy about it. Also note, I think you are off track. The player that left did not complain about the encounter, he did not say anything about the enemies phasing out of plane. His problem is the concentration rule for Ready a Spell, and he was fine with this encounter up until the point he wanted to break that rule.

I have had another player once a year or two ago get angry because I would not let him cast a spell when he had no spell slots left. Should I have let that go too? He didn't quit though.

When it comes to rules in combat I set an expectation in session 0, we will play rules as written except for certain specific houserules and I give players the opportunity to discuss and possibly any houserules they want. At some tables DMs play fast and loose with the rules and that is fine and it can be fun, but I find that to be a more difficult style for me as a DM and although I play and enjoy games with that style, as a player I also prefer games where the rules are not knowingly bent or outright broken. Finally, when I have played games like that; for me as a player and many other players it sets a gray area as to what should be allowed, and can be intimidating, while players with different personalities will be the ones breaking the rules all the time.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I really wonder how that specific player had reacted if you as a DM just ignored that rule against his PC. I have played a bit in the past with those kind of players...

 

[ECMO3]

So he's just playing incredibly sub optimally, then? The fact that, as described, this came off as a level 1 warlock moreso than any other class says something

I would not call it suboptimal. Magic Initiate and Fey Touched are probably the most common origin and general feats I see overall respectively. Tough and Sentinel are respectively more common on martials (and this PC also has tough) and Warcaster is more common on full casters, but these two feats are still taken quite a bit regardless of class.

The only thing uncommon is Protection from Evil and Good. I don't see that often with Magic Initiate, usually it is Find Familiar, Shield or more rarely Jump.

As far as optimization; Misty Step once a day is great for getting out of a grapple or in many cases if you are swallowed or something like that and only costs a bonus action. Hex is 1d6 extra damage on every attack, you are making a lot as a Fighter and as a champion it benefits from the expanded crit range. With a 1-hour duration and Constitution proficiency it can usually run for multiple combats. I think over the course of a day this is usually going to be more extra damage than either Sentinel or PAM, as you move into high level play its value increases and as a fighter you get an extra feat so you can still easily hit 20 Strength by level 8. I've seen martials take Hunter's Mark as well for this, and the damage is similar, I think Hex is a better spell though.

Magic Initiate is a good way to get Truestrike. It has amazing value on a martial at low level because of the Radiant damage type and the numerous low level monsters you face either with resistance to BPS or some type of "vulnerability" to Radiant and you are only making 1 attack a turn anyway. At will Radiant Damage stays relevant, although less impactful, through level 20. The cantrip damage scaling makes it great for using with Crossbows or Muskets that are going to limit you to one attack a turn and offers a great long range option if you dump Dexterity. For a martial it does require you invest something in a casting stat, but that is not really suboptimal IMO, especially if you consider the impact on all 3 phases of the game. A Fighter is really the best platform for a Skill Monkey in tier 1-2. If you put a few points in Charisma to get a 14 or so, and skill proficiencies he is a very good face through level 20. If you put it into Wisdom you shore up a weak save and can get stuff like Perception, Animal Handling and Survival and probably be the best person in the party at those through 20.

I would argue a strength-based Fighter with a 14 Charisma, 8 Dex and Truestrike for long ranged attacks is a more powerful PC overall than a Fighter with a 14 Dex and 8 Charisma, while being a little less powerful in combat. On the other hand I think a Fighter with a 14 Wisdom, 8 Dex and Truestrike is actually as good in combat, and still better in the other phases than a fighter with a 14 Dex and 8 Wisdom.

I mean, unique, yeah, but they're not exactly fun for players.

None of the players were unhappy with the encounter. Even the player who quit did not complain about the encounter.

The hiding would accomplish nothing

Using the Hide action and passing a DC 15 Stealth check gives you the invisible condition. The invisibility condition has multiple benefits including, attacks against you have disadvantage and attacks you make have advantage

Most players treat hiding as a pre-combat thing anyway, and given said thing is hopping to the ethereal which, y'know, border ethereal looks onto the Material so he'd just see the fighter run off to hide, so that's just as much of a waste of a turn as taking a whizz.

We play hiding RAW for 5.5E, so most of this is not correct. Hide is a specific action, it can be taken in combat like any other action, it requires 3 quarters cover or heavy Obscuration and it causes you to be invisible if you suceed.

So basically yes you run off, get behind cover (which there was plenty of) roll your check, add Tactical Mind if needed and then you are invisible (if the end result is higher than 15).

 

[Zardnaar]

Did you mess up the phase spider?

It can phase away 1/2 rounds. Not phase in and out every round.

 

[ECMO3]

Did you mess up the phase spider?

It can phase away 1/2 rounds. Not phase in and out every round.

It was not a phase spider. It was a custom psionic monster, but it worked the same way.

It could use a bonus action to move from Ethereal to prime or from prime to ethereal. This happens every round typically. If you start your turn in the Ethereal you shift as a bonus action to prime and then attack ending in the prime. If you start in prime you attack and then shift to Ethereal and end your turn there. So if you attack every round you end your turn on the prime every other round.

 

[Reynard]

It was not a phase spider. It was a custom psionic monster, but it worked the same way.

It could use a bonus action to move from Ethereal to prime or from prime to ethereal. This happens every round typically. If you start your turn in the Ethereal you shift as a bonus action to prime and then attack ending in the prime. If you start in prime you attack and then shift to Ethereal and end your turn there. So if you attack every round you end your turn on the prime every other round.

Right. I don't understand the player's complaint or worry, or that of anyone in this thread calling this a gotcha monster. It is a pretty easy pattern to deduce and effectively counter.

 

[Zardnaar]

Right. I don't understand the player's complaint or worry, or that of anyone in this thread calling this a gotcha monster. It is a pretty easy pattern to deduce and effectively counter.

Yeah it cant attack and phase every round.

 

[Tessarael]

Yeah it cant attack and phase every round.

Potentially, it can do the following, annoying, but predictable:

Round 1: Attack, phase out. Now you need to ready an attack, or do something else.
Round 2: Phase in, attack. Then you can attack as usual.
Round 3: Attack, phase out. Now you need to ready an attack, or do something else.
Round 4: Phase in, attack. Then you can attack as usual.

The issue with this sort of opponent is that sometimes the only window to attack them is on their turn when they attack. So readying an action to attack when it is phased out is a must. Every other round, that takes you from being able to do a full attack to only being able to do one standard action, and not using your bonus action.

As another standard 5.5E D&D example of something similar, flyby attackers that don't draw opportunity attacks when moving out of your melee range are worse in this regard, but in that case you can use ranged attacks while it is out of melee range.

 

[Zardnaar]

Potentially, it can do the following, annoying, but predictable:

Round 1: Attack, phase out. Now you need to ready an attack, or do something else.
Round 2: Phase in, attack. Then you can attack as usual.
Round 3: Attack, phase out. Now you need to ready an attack, or do something else.
Round 4: Phase in, attack. Then you can attack as usual.

The issue with this sort of opponent is that sometimes the only window to attack them is on their turn when they attack. So readying an action to attack when it is phased out is a must. Every other round, that takes you from being able to do a full attack to only being able to do one standard action, and not using your bonus action.

As another standard 5.5E D&D example of something similar, flyby attackers that don't draw opportunity attacks when moving out of your melee range are worse in this regard, but in that case you can use ranged attacks while it is out of melee range.

Phase spider has around half the hp for its CR.

DM special though could very annoying if it had buffed hp.

Still its only gonna adt an extra round or two.

Personally I would say good riddance. I use dead magic zones and greater magic resistance DM specials. None of my players quit. Hell shadow storms, darkness etc as well, spellcasters packing hold person etc.

 

[Li Shenron]

Yes. It's pretty normal for my players to wander around dungeons with readied cantrips, or to ready something controlling or blasting before the big guy kicks down the door in a breaching action where enemies are known to lurk.

LOL.

This pretty much tells how the Ready rules are such a failure in game design terms. By RAW your players cannot ready anything like these because "Ready" is a combat-only action. You can't use Ready outside the Initiative rounds of combat.

And yet your players are thinking in the most natural way, that their characters want to be "ready" before combat starts.

The same thing happens to me all the time. 9 times out of 10 players ask to ready an action outside of combat, and I have to tell them they can't: they are already assumed to be always ready, and can only roll Initiative to see if they succeed.

Then, using Ready within combat is very rarely beneficial. Most of the times it doesn't help because the trigger is not interrupted by the readied action. You need to be in a very specific situation for a readied action to be better than the same action taken at your regular Initiative. And because it costs both your action and your reaction, a readied action is already more expensive than just doing it as a normal action. Losing the spell slot if the trigger doesn't happen, losing concentration are additional unjustified costs that make reading a spell very rarely worth it.

Seriously, I wish Ready was an optional rule because 99% it is a waste of time.