D&D General Dungeon as Fantasy Bunker

[CandyLaser]

I've seen the terms used fairly interchangeably, though its obvious the Earthdawn kaers are not what you were talking about, since they were specifically set up to be a temporary solution to an apocalyptic problem, not a steady-state defensive fortification.

They're a little bit of both; IIRC the designers didn't know how long the Scourge would persist and people would need to stay in the kaers, but they knew it was a long time. So the kaers were designed to house people for centuries as fortified and magically warded subterranean settlements. As much as possible, they were self-contained and self-sufficient. The Fallout Vault comparison is apt, except that to the best of my knowledge they weren't part of an elaborate crackpot eugenics experiment. In any case, given all the underground city talk I thought kaers might be a good potential source of fantasy setting inspiration.

 

[Thomas Shey]

They're a little bit of both; IIRC the designers didn't know how long the Scourge would persist and people would need to stay in the kaers, but they knew it was a long time. So the kaers were designed to house people for centuries as fortified and magically warded subterranean settlements. As much as possible, they were self-contained and self-sufficient. The Fallout Vault comparison is apt, except that to the best of my knowledge they weren't part of an elaborate crackpot eugenics experiment. In any case, given all the underground city talk I thought kaers might be a good potential source of fantasy setting inspiration.

This is true. While they assumed they might have people move out of the Kaers after the Scourge, they set it up so it wasn't necessary (of course the extended length of the Scourage and the failure states with a lot of kaers complicated that).

But I do agree there's some useful analogies there, including it, well, not entirely working.

 

[Reynard]

They're a little bit of both; IIRC the designers didn't know how long the Scourge would persist and people would need to stay in the kaers, but they knew it was a long time. So the kaers were designed to house people for centuries as fortified and magically warded subterranean settlements. As much as possible, they were self-contained and self-sufficient. The Fallout Vault comparison is apt, except that to the best of my knowledge they weren't part of an elaborate crackpot eugenics experiment. In any case, given all the underground city talk I thought kaers might be a good potential source of fantasy setting inspiration.

This is true. While they assumed they might have people move out of the Kaers after the Scourge, they set it up so it wasn't necessary (of course the extended length of the Scourage and the failure states with a lot of kaers complicated that).

But I do agree there's some useful analogies there, including it, well, not entirely working.

My only quibble was that "bunker" implies you go in for limited time during attack, rather than you move your whole society inside for a extended period.

And while the people involved in the Kaers probably did not intend weird experiments, I bet a few Horrors did...

This thread is making me want to run Earthdawn...

 

[Thomas Shey]

My only quibble was that "bunker" implies you go in for limited time during attack, rather than you move your whole society inside for a extended period.

Well, the problem is there the "attack" was quite long (longer than they expected even).

And while the people involved in the Kaers probably did not intend weird experiments, I bet a few Horrors did...

Definitely.

This thread is making me want to run Earthdawn...

I occasionally think about it but all the reviews and discussion make me conflicted about which version to use (I own two).

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Well, the problem is there the "attack" was quite long (longer than they expected even).



Definitely.



I occasionally think about it but all the reviews and discussion make me conflicted about which version to use (I own two).

1e has a place in my heart, the designer ran it for me at a game store lo these many MANY years ago. Couldn't say whether it was any good independent of the designer running it as he was also a skilled GM and made a nice little game for us.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Well, the problem is there the "attack" was quite long (longer than they expected even).



Definitely.



I occasionally think about it but all the reviews and discussion make me conflicted about which version to use (I own two).

I own four (Fasa 1e, LRG 2e, Redbrick 3e, Fasa 4e). I like 1e because it was surprisingly solid for a 1e, but some disciplines were pretty sparse. And I own a ton of 1e books. But 4e is a pretty good choice if starting new, though I miss my wobbles dice.

I think all have been pretty solid.

 

[jdrakeh]

Oh. You need to check out Jim Pinto's recently released RPG, Ossuary. The basic premise is that, in a fantasy world, there was an ELE (extinction level event) when the planet passed through the tail of a comet that revived all of the world's dead (and prevented those who died from staying dead). Most of the peoples of the world secreted themselves away underground, in subterranean city complexes (I.e. dungeons). The game begins with those vaults opening generations later with the PCs rediscovering the world and how the passage of time has changed it.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Many castles and manors had escape tunnels, where the water table permitted. And in the case of mott and bailey, where the structure is on a raised mound, with total disregard of ground water.

I think castles would be pretty similar for the majority of cases for the simple reason that in "civilized" lands the biggest threat is other "civilized" people...usually of the same civilization. Tall walls are good defenses, though instead of solid stone, I'd expect more stone-dressed berms that don't toppled the same as a stone wall when breached.

There'd be more enforced strictures against wooden construction inside the protected city as fires are much easier to start in a world of where every High Elf can know Create Bonfire or Firebolt after a long rest. What wood is used in construction is likely to be plastered or covered in adobe as fire retardant.

Higher threat locations may augment their walls with criss-crossed with iron bars or chains inside to defend against "earth swimmers." as part of monthly holidays the high priest reinforces barriers against demons, fey and undead and establish safe zones.

 

[Thomas Shey]

1e has a place in my heart, the designer ran it for me at a game store lo these many MANY years ago. Couldn't say whether it was any good independent of the designer running it as he was also a skilled GM and made a nice little game for us.

I ran it many years ago, but I remember some problems with it. Unfortunately, its been long enough I don't recall what they were.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I own four (Fasa 1e, LRG 2e, Redbrick 3e, Fasa 4e). I like 1e because it was surprisingly solid for a 1e, but some disciplines were pretty sparse. And I own a ton of 1e books. But 4e is a pretty good choice if starting new, though I miss my wobbles dice.

I think all have been pretty solid.

I think 1e and 4e are what I have.