EL for serial duels

[roguerouge]

I have a scenario in which a single PC will face several individual duels one after the other. Each of these battles will be against a Paladin 5; so the first battle is against Paladin A, then B, then C... What EL would 4 duels with ONE of these paladins in each duel be? EL 5? Or something higher?

These paladins would be honor bound not to aid one another, merely standing and watching the fight, but the next battle begins immediately after the end of the prior one.

 

[irdeggman]

Follow the rules for multiple foes - but remember that the tables assume a party of 4 people and not an individual (i.e., that is CR is based on a party of 4 not a single character). It doesn't really matter if they are at one time or another - since the expenditure of resources is the same (i.e., you can't replenish between battles).

 

[udalrich]

Actually, having them be sequential makes a big difference. If they all attacked at once, you would be attacked four times in the first round. If it takes 3 rounds to kill one foe, fighting them sequentially means your attacked 12 times. If you don't have area effects, fighting them all at once would result in 3*4 + 3*3 + 3*2 + 3*1 attacks (or a total of 30 attacks).

4 CR 5 opponents at once would be EL 9. They're actually getting about 40% of the attacks since they're sequential instead of a mob, so I'd probably put it at about EL 7. (Half the opponents would be -2 CR.) They are getting less than half the attacks, which should push it down a bit, but the character will be running out of limited use and limited duration resources by the end.

Also note that a EL 7 encounter against a single 7th level character is more or less a toss-up. There's probably a slight advantage to the PC, but I wouldn't bet large sums of money on him.

 

[roguerouge]

That was my concern, yes, that the action economies would be different, leading to different results.

 

[irdeggman]

4 CR 5 opponents at once would be EL 9.

For a party of 4 members not for a single PC.

DMG pg 48

A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate challenge for a group of four 5th-level characters.

Also note that a EL 7 encounter against a single 7th level character is more or less a toss-up. There's probably a slight advantage to the PC, but I wouldn't bet large sums of money on him.

Incorrect.

An EL 7 encounter is designed for a party of 4 level 7 PCs not for an individual one and it is also designed to consume approx 20% of their resources (hit points, spells, consumable magic items, etc.)

DMG pg 49

An encounter with EL equal to the PCs' level is one that should expend about 20% of their resources - hit points, spells, magic item uses, and so on. This means that on average after about four encounters of the party's level the PCs need to rest, heal and regain spells.

There are no hard and fast rules for handling single PC encounters. IIRC you are supposed to reverse engineer the multiple encounter tables to come up with something, but I think that is far too complicated.

If using the design assumption that for a part of 4 PCs about 20% of their resources are used in an "equal" or "challenging" encounter then I would would first calculate the party level (which is what you normally do with larger parties).

DMG pg 48

To balance an encounter with a party, determine the party's level (the average of all the members' character levels.)

So take the PC and divide by 4 then use the tables - so a 5th level paladin alone would be able to handle an EL 1.25 (I would round this one up to 2, even though normal rounding rules go down).

An encounter with a single 5th level paladin would be considered a very difficult encounter (DMG pg 49) and result in an increased xp award (DMG pg 39).

Check the "thumb rules" for more difficult encounters (DMG pg 50 - noting that multiple encounters without a cleric are more difficult.)

 

[Jhaelen]

Incorrect.

An EL 7 encounter is designed for a party of 4 level 7 PCs not for an individual one and it is also designed to consume approx 20% of their resources (hit points, spells, consumable magic items, etc.)

Actually calling 'a EL 7 encounter against a single 7th level character is more or less a toss-up' is fairly accurate.

While the EL formula pretty much break down regarding how accurate they measure the difficulty when trying to apply them to single pc 'partys', it's straightforawrd to calculate the equivalent EL.

A 7th level PC vs. a single CR 7 enemy is the same EL as 4 7th level PCs vs. four CR 7 enemies. I.e. it's EL 11. So that's four levels higher than an equal-level encounter and should thus result in the pc losing 80% of its resources.

Because of the swingyness in 3E and since we're talking about a single pc that may very likely result in the pc's defeat. A lucky initiative roll (or a lucky crit) may be all it takes. If spellcasting is involved it's almost a foregone conclusion that the one who goes first will win.

 

[freyar]

To answer the OP: I believe this is 4 sequential EL 5 encounters, just with no rest in between. Depending on how tough the PC is, you might consider granting a 1 or 2 round recovery period between bouts to allow for some amount of healing.

 

[Trihelios]

You could look at that as an EL 13 encounter which has been nerfed by substandard tactics from the opposition (attacking sequentially rather than all at once).

Alternatively it's a particularly nasty set of 4 encounters, each at EL 9, which have been made difficult by granting no rest time between the encounters.

(These CRs have been adjusted for a PC group of half size, then halved again for a total +4 to CR).

I'd personally consider calling it a single EL 11 encounter to be a fair guess. It's not exactly RAW but the numbers seem to roughly fit.

What level is the PC?

 

[roguerouge]

The PC is a Bard 11/Rogue 1/Fighter 1. Her dueling weapon is a +2 keen thundering crystal echoblade. Her AC is probably in the low 20s and her HP at the mid 60s. She has the whirlwind attack feat chain.

 

[irdeggman]

Actually calling 'a EL 7 encounter against a single 7th level character is more or less a toss-up' is fairly accurate.

I'm sorry - I should have looked more closely. "Toss up" not meaning the same thing as an "equal" encounter.

The "toss up" being close to a 50-50 chance of survival, which translates into a "very difficult" encounter (which is what I had said earlier though).

An "equal" encounter is considered "challenging" and should use up about 20% of the party's assets.