Energy drain question

[Damon Griffin]

A character who is subjected to 'energy drain' immediately loses one hit die. Interestingly, this means that although all characters suffer -1 to hit (regardless of their class BAB progression) and all characters suffer -1 to saves (regardless of their class saving throw bonus progression), the characters who suffer most from the hit point loss are the tougher classes: a wizard loses 1d4 hit points, but a ranger loses 1d8. Odd.

My question, however, has to do with CON bonuses. Does the CON bonus apply in this situation, and if so, is it applied as a bonus or penalty to the lost hit die?

Say I have a ranger with a 16 CON (+3 bonus). When hit with energy drain, does he lose...

...1d8 hit points?
...1d8+3 hit points?
...1d8-3 hit points?

It would seem VERY strange if a high CON was a drawback in situations like this, but we already have hardy fighter-types losing more h.p. to an energy drain than bookish wizards would suffer from the same attack, so who knows...?

 

[Thanee]

First, you only lose the hit die after 24h and if you failed your save.

Second, well yes, of course, the Con modifier is added (or subtracted) from the hit die.

It's not a disadvantage for the fighter, because the higher hit die is one of the abilities of a fighter, that increases with level, where the wizard (for example) gains (and loses) some of his spellcasting ability. All in all pretty fair, don't you think?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dr. Zoom]

As Thanee said, you don't lose a HD immediately. Your do have a -1 effective level/HD in calculations that take level into account, such as casting a Cure Light Wounds Spell. A fifth level cleric, for example, with 1 negative level casts CLW as a 4th level cleric, curing 1d8+4 (not 1d8+5) points of damage. But he still has his 5 HD worth of hit points. If he fails his save 24 hours later, the negative level goes away, but he actually loses one level of experience. Then his HD drops to 4. The Con bonus counts, too. He would not have 4 HD + 5 x Con, but 4 HD + 4 x Con.

 

[Damon Griffin]

First, you only lose the hit die after 24h and if you failed your save.

I misread a portion of the text in the DMG, which may help explain why I was having reservations about how this worked. I read "A character who loses a level to energy drain instantly loses one Hit Die" (emphasis mine) and, not having read the preceding paragraph carefully, interpreted that as meaning that the loss of Hit Die accompanied the acquisition of the negative level, not the failed save 24 hours later.

In other words, you get hit with an energy drain, you immediately suffer -1 to hit, -1 to saves, -1 to skill and ability checks, an effective level loss for purposes of spells and other calculations, AND a Hit Die; you'd regain the lost Hit Die at the end of 24 hours if you made your save.

In this situation (which I see now is not what happens), it didn't make sense to me that fighter types should suffer more damage than wizards, or that a high CON would act as a penalty. It would be a bit like creating a spell that does 1d4 base damage to wizards, 1d8 base damage to rangers, and an extra point of damage per CON bonus of the target.

Since the Hit Die is lost only if and when the level loss becomes "permanent" due to a failed save at the end of the day...yes, in that case it makes sense that you'd lose whatever hit point benefit had originally come with that level: the size Hit Die appropriate to your class, plus CON bonus if any.

So, all cleared up now. But do you see why, given my original misreading of the rule, I was having a problem with the idea that I should lose extra h.p. as a ranger?

A fifth level cleric, for example, with 1 negative level casts CLW as a 4th level cleric, curing 1d8+4 (not 1d8+5) points of damage. But he still has his 5 HD worth of hit points. If he fails his save 24 hours later, the negative level goes away, but he actually loses one level of experience. Then his HD drops to 4. The Con bonus counts, too. He would not have 4 HD + 5 x Con, but 4 HD + 4 x Con.

Yeah, the effects of the negative level on spells and such were not in question, I just misunderstood when the loss of Hit Die took effect; as you may have seen in the above reply to Thanee, this made a huge difference in my attitude toward the "rightness" of the whole thing.

Thanks.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Yep, I understood what you meant. Glad to be helpful.