Enlarge Spell: what's a power's damage die?

[Zeven]

Enlarge Spell applies a -2 penalty to each die of damage rolled with the power.

Which dice are considered 'a damage die rolled with the power'? Does that include bonus damage dice on a critical hit while wielding a magical implement? And the additional +1d6 fire damage to a single target from the Master's Wand of Scorching Burst?

My first response would be yes, but then it gets strange when you take Enlarge Spell's 'you can’t use this feat on a power that doesn’t roll dice for damage' into account. That means you could use the feat on Chilling Cloud, as long as you make sure to crit at least once (or use a feat or something to add a +1d6 cold damage to a single target, e.g. Master's Wand of Scorching Burst -> Master's Wand of Chilling Cloud).

How would you rule this, and is there an official rule that applies here?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't know anything about "official" but damage die as far as everything I've ever seen discussed are just the base dice rolled for a power. Anything else is extra and not affected by damage dice penalties or bonuses. Crit dice for instance don't get adjustments. Master's Wands are a bit unusual in adding in a rolled damage bonus, but again I don't think those are damage dice per-se. Other examples might be war rings and such.

 

[jbear]

Nothing official from me either, but in so far as chilling cloud; I imagine you have to declare you are going to enlarge an attack before you you attack. It's not very reasonable to fire off chilling cloud and score a critical hit on one of the attacks and then say, well since I rooll damage dice on that attack I decide to enlarge it.

Since you can't know that you are going to roll a critical or not before an attack, I don't think you can apply enlarge to that power.

Whether or not an enlarged scorching burst has its damage from a critical damage roll reduced as well... I'd say yes. And the extra 1d6 damage from the wand, also.

 

[sfedi]

I would only count dice that are applied to all targets.

Because that's the factor that Enlarge balances.

More targets? Less damage each.

Critical dice are not worth reducing because:
- the caster already payed the price, and it's an acceptable one
- it's always thrilling to roll critical damage, it's not fun to cut this part. Specially if you roll poorly and end up loosing damage.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I agree with the opinions above. The spell's damage dice are the dice associated with the spell, not with a feat or weapon.

 

[DreamChaser]

I agree with the opinions above. The spell's damage dice are the dice associated with the spell, not with a feat or weapon.

or class feature like warlock's curse or sneak attack.

DC

 

[Turtlejay]

I'd interpret it literally. The damage die from the power. Only the die listed in the power description. Other dice, from Paragon Paths, class features, feats, powers, items, Leaders, etc are not from the power, and would not be effected.

Opening that floodgate works both ways (as was noted upthread) allowing powers with no damage dice to be enlarged.

Jay

 

[Zeven]

I'd interpret it literally. The damage die from the power. Only the die listed in the power description. Other dice, from Paragon Paths, class features, feats, powers, items, Leaders, etc are not from the power, and would not be effected.

Opening that floodgate works both ways (as was noted upthread) allowing powers with no damage dice to be enlarged.

Jay

Thanks for all the replies. It seems that the most literal interpretation causes the least rules issues (and is the most fun), so I'll also rule it that way. Only the dice explicitly mentioned in the power's own description get reduced, not the dice added by other abilities.

 

[Kzach]

Yeah, if a power says, "2d10 + Charisma modifier psychic damage and 1d6 fire damage to all adjacent enemies to the target," or something similar, then I'd expect Enlarge to reduce each of the d10 rolls but not the d6.

 

[jbear]

It may be worth taking into consideration the wording of the feat. it says each die of damage rolled WITH the power. I wonder if by that it is meant to include those extra dice you can roll used in combination with the power by other means. They are not directly from that power, but they can only be rolled when you make an attack WITH that power. Anyway, just a thought.