Essentials Observations

[thecasualoblivion]

1. Between having Con as a secondary ability and the use of Heavy Shields, Essentials Clerics are tanks. Their powers are even geared towards an aggressive in your face style of of play.
2. The Knight's Defender punishment mechanic is an opportunity action, so unlike PHB Fighters the Knight can punish every adjacent enemy in their aura.
3. Assuming max Dexterity, the Slayer is a surprisingly effective archer.
4. A Thief can use Sneak's Trick to hide behind allies and consistently get combat advantage for sneak attack with ranged attacks.
5. Pacifist Wizard is go.

 

[Badwe]

I played in the D&D gameday for redbox/essentials which, mysteriously, lacked a knight defender. Instead our frontline was me as the cleric warpriest and a slayer fighter. sure enough, I tanked quite well. especially fun (and aggravating to the DM) was when, after opening a door to a room stuffed to the gills with zombies, we back around the corner and stood shoulder to shoulder in a 10 foot wide hall to keep the squishies safe and prevent the zombies from surrounding us (or the archer minions pelting us from a distance)

another observation, though i'm not sure how relevant it is, we only had 3 at the game day and the slayer was simple enough that one player played it alongside the enchanter mage and didn't experience any slowdown. Granted, he is an experienced player (level 9 wizard in the home game), but it demonstrates the slayer is very easy to wrap your head around.

 

[nookiemonster]

Yup, the Slayer is REALLY simple to play.

What's a pacifist wizard? One who doesn't make any attack rolls? Or just doesn't deal damage?

4. A Thief can use Sneak's Trick to hide behind allies and consistently get combat advantage for sneak attack with ranged attacks.

Really? I thought allies only gave you cover from attacks, they didn't grant concealment (necessary for hiding).

3. Assuming max Dexterity, the Slayer is a surprisingly effective archer.

Half-Orc Slayer? Effective and fits with the half-orc archetype.

 

[Badwe]

there is a theif's trick (at will move action) that lets you make a stealth check if you so much as have cover.


so... if the half-orc slayer has 18 str 18 dex (or even 20 dex if you want to just be silly) does he get to double dip with dex mod damage? ie: do you include dex mod for a ranged basic and dex mod for the slayer rider damage? combine that with a feat for the d12 goodness of an axebow (greatbow) and if it combines with the stances you've got some pretty ridiculous damage. i think power strike works with it too, except for the level 7 weapon specializations.

 

[Larrin]

there is a theif's trick (at will move action) that lets you make a stealth check if you so much as have cover.

But unless the power specifically says so (see assassin's Shade Form), ally cover doesn't count for hiding. You can't maintain being hidden behind an ally (full cover->hide->move behind ally won't keep you hidden.), thief's trick doesn't let you hide with cover from an ally, unless it says so specifically. Why? Because the rules specifically say allies only give cover when determining ranged attacks. Enemies aren't ranged attacks, neither is seeing, so they can see you just fine.

But, if the power says you can use allies as cover, then there you go.


Edit: Checked the book, it make no mention of using allies to hide, therefore you can't

 

[thecasualoblivion]

there is a theif's trick (at will move action) that lets you make a stealth check if you so much as have cover.


so... if the half-orc slayer has 18 str 18 dex (or even 20 dex if you want to just be silly) does he get to double dip with dex mod damage? ie: do you include dex mod for a ranged basic and dex mod for the slayer rider damage? combine that with a feat for the d12 goodness of an axebow (greatbow) and if it combines with the stances you've got some pretty ridiculous damage. i think power strike works with it too, except for the level 7 weapon specializations.

Power strike only works with melee basic attacks. On the other hand, the Slayer's bonus damage with weapons from Dex works with any weapon(so yes on the double dip), melee or ranged as does the blanket +1 to attack rolls with weapons. In addition, many of the stances don't care if the basic attack is melee or ranged, including the +2/+3/+4 damage with all attacks stance and the +1 to all attack rolls stance. As an added bit of candy, the Slayer can draw or stow a weapon as a free action once per turn.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I played in the D&D gameday for redbox/essentials which, mysteriously, lacked a knight defender.

The Knight simply isn't in the Red Box, so no Defenders on Game Day. The Slayers played just like 1e Fighters, though, and the old-school, in-your-face tactics that let 1e fighters fill the role long before 'aggro' and 'marks' still work. Not sticky like a 'real' Fighter, but a Slayer dishes so much damage it quickly makes itself a priority target, anway - and has the hps & surges to handle it.

 

[Badwe]

the 3.5 fighter archer was one of my favorite unconventional builds, this makes me happy.

 

[Howndawg]

Some observations of mine:

1. The cleric, for the first time since 2e, is not MAD. You can dump a warpriest's CHA instead of DEX or INT. No longer do clerics have to complain about sucking at religion.

2. The thief can be a real skill monkey! Epic skill mastery gives a +3 bonus to all skills. If your thief is smart enough to take Jack-o-T and Disciple of Lore, he can really be a total skill ace.

3. The disciple feats (I hope that is the right name, I don't have the book with me) usually have a mental ability as a prereq. They aren't limited to divine characters and you can have as many of them as you want. Finally, mental abilities don't get the feat shaft.

4. Heroic Effort means a human in a V class doesn't have to worry about being saddled with an undesirable at-will.

5. I've noticed the book tries to avoid CRPG talk. I don't recall seeing the word "build" mentioned at all.

6. I love the new iconics! Dendric the knight has a kite shield! Death to dungeonpunk!!!

Overall, I thought HotFL was great, and not just for newbies. Experienced gamers who want a bit more old school thrown into 4e should definitely check it out. Now to get down to the RC... Maybe after class tomorrow.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I've taken a deeper look at the essentials classes, both in the book and the Assassin and Pyromancer from Dragon, and am impressed how well designed they are. They aren't flashy, they aren't as versatile as the originals, and can't go supernova like the originals, but they are solid.

Some further thoughts:

1. A Dwarf Warpriest with Dwarven Weapon Training and taking the Warpriest Paragon Path from PHB1(a Warpriest Warpriest, hehe) is a scary imitation Defender.

2. Some thoughts on the Knight:

a. Is surrounded by 4 enemies
b. Enemy X takes a turn, anything other than standing still and hitting the Knight and he gets smacked.
c. Your ally goes, and flanking enemy X with you, makes a ranged attack in melee range. Enemy X attacks your ally with an opportunity attack, and you attack enemy X.
d. Warlord gives that same ally a Ranged Basic Attack, which he takes, giving enemy X an opportunity attack, which in turn would give you another.
e. Enemies Y, Z and Q take their turns, and you get opportunity candy against them too.
f. Same with your other allies...
g. You aren't a Slayer, but your MBA is probably more tricked out than most 4E characters.
h. Turn 2, rinse and repeat.

3. Slayer is the image of everything that was good about the 2E Fighter. I've never got a stronger old school vibe from 4E than I get from the Slayer.

4. Thief gets the best non-Daggermaster Paragon Path the Rogue has ever gotten.

5. Pyromancer/Evoker brings the burn.

6. Divine Devotion feats are the best new idea in Essentials.