D&D 4E Everyone's a swordsage; Thoughts on 4E after my first read-through.

Moggthegob

First Post
Today i received my copy of the core rulebooks today as my award from winning a tournament at Gen Con and my first instinct was the above.

I was disappointed that all the classes "feel" the same. I miss the differing power curves, as that was something I really liked about DnD. The uniqueness of each class seems to be disappearing and I feel that could potentially limit replay value. It even seems like a very structured point based system.( I know they're popular in some circles, just not mine really. Seriously. You should have seen it when we tried M&M) And they just feel like the swordsage. I didn't particularly like the Tome of Battle and so this development disappointed me a bit.

Another bit I disliked was the way skills changed and the amount of randomness involved seems significantly toned down. Call me crazy but the idea of a rogue not necessarily knowing his way around locks as well as he knows traps and devices seems good for character building and well character. That said it does seem to be easier to access, if simply not as in-depth or useful for character building. And ,as a DnD fan, I simply like the loads of random chance involved,even if it isn't always in my favor.

And, the I hate that the spiked chain seems to have been limited in its usefulness, with the disappearance of the flail/ spiked chain as a weapon unique from clubs and hammer. And the crit overhaul was also unappreciated by me. Seriously. Why use a Falchion rather than a Greataxe?

Finally, and this is a minor quibble that may go away after some use, but I very strongly dislike the layout of the book. It seems unintuitive.
Also, I would have preferred the chart appearing after every character class. I also would have liked the power appearing their own section after the classes, like the 3.5 book. But, perhaps this is merely a force of habit that only I find annoying.

That said, the game looks fun...just not the same fun as I'm used to it seems. I like it, I just don't like it as much as the previous edition, at least at first glance. This weekend my players and I will be giving the keep on the Shadowfell a try this weekend and then make the decision on whether or not to convert our campaign.

I was wondering what others first impressions were. And, if after actually reading the rules, you prefer the new system or the old. Or perhaps a mix between the two.
 
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Surgoshan

First Post
Having spent several hours today working five characters through a 7 round combat, I can state that different characters feel and act very differently. And this was in a fairly boring combat. The different classes attack different defenses with different effects. Mechanically, they're all very similar, but they all behave differently, tactically.
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
Moggthegob said:
I was disappointed that all the classes "feel" the same. I miss the differing power curves, as that was something I really liked about DnD. The uniqueness of each class seems to be disappearing and I feel that could potentially limit replay value.
Can you get back after playing it a bit? I'd love to hear whether you opinion changes or not - I've heard "looks bad, but plays good" some times, meaning that the style of each class seems to be different enough in-game that the similar structures don't matter that much.

I yet have to play, so... that's why I'm asking! :)

Cheers, LT.
 

Moggthegob

First Post
Surgoshan said:
Having spent several hours today working five characters through a 7 round combat, I can state that different characters feel and act very differently. And this was in a fairly boring combat. The different classes attack different defenses with different effects. Mechanically, they're all very similar, but they all behave differently, tactically.

Really? I will be interested to see how that plays out when we play through Keep on the Shadowfell. It certainly did not seem that way to me from reading,but perhaps it is the sort of thing that doesnt come out when simply reading the rules.
 

Moggthegob

First Post
Lord Tirian said:
Can you get back after playing it a bit? I'd love to hear whether you opinion changes or not - I've heard "looks bad, but plays good" some times, meaning that the style of each class seems to be different enough in-game that the similar structures don't matter that much.

I yet have to play, so... that's why I'm asking! :)

Cheers, LT.

Absolutely. Its not a garuntee. I have two member of the group are very cold to the idea because they don't want to get invested in the game for purely financial reasons and don't want to play it in case they like it.

But here's to hoping, even if after playing it they trash to the point where we never touch it again.
 

Ranmyaku

First Post
Flails and chains aren't distinct from hammers and maces?

Not sure what the policy is on posting powers wholesale, but... Ach-hem.

Chains of Sorrow - Fighter Attack 13
You deliver a ferocious blow and catch your enemy’s armor, shield, or claws with your weapon as you draw back for another attack. Your recovery wrenches your enemy out of place.

You tangle a dude up in your chains and wreck his defences.



Cage of Chains - Fighter Attack 23
After landing a decisive blow, you skillfully use your weapon to entangle and restrain your opponent.

Tonnes of damage, and if you have a flail the dude gets tangled up and restrained.



Flails are still quite distinctive!
 

Moggthegob

First Post
Well sort of but those are comparatively high level feats. I guess I just miss that, if-you-want-to-be-a-skillful-fighter, chain-lets-you-do-cool-stuff-that-other-weapons-dont of it. From level 1.

Ya know?....
maybe not?
 

Fallen Seraph

First Post
Well, from the beginning since we first started to get info, I liked it, and continued to like it when I got the books... So not much has changed then, or since.

Biggest change, is more, I am finding more and more how simple and effective it is to work with the system, rather then against it like in previous editions to tell the stories you wish to tell. The way the books are laid out, the way the rules are presented, etc. it is simply easier and more elegant to work with.

I imagine it will continue to do so too with more DMGs to allow even more rules/alternative rules and options for re-fluffling, houserules, telling less standard campaigns, etc.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
Moggthegob said:
Well sort of but those are comparatively high level feats. I guess I just miss that, if-you-want-to-be-a-skillful-fighter, chain-lets-you-do-cool-stuff-that-other-weapons-dont of it. From level 1.
All the Fighter's Encounter powers are weapon-dependent. From level 1.

Cheers, -- N
 

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