Fantasy novel lovers thread

[Whisper-Kitten]

Hmm. As a general thing, how often would you estimate you’re R.F. Kuang prose?

Awful.

 

[Pale Violet Light]

I waited three books for that. They are obviously good books, but I think they fall in the love them or hate them category. It must be close to thirty years since I read them but they're still living rent-free in my head and a mere glimpse of the title or the author's name triggers the boredom trauma.

I read the Liveship Traders first, and loved it, grim though it is. Going back and reading Farseer was so disappointing: dry and dull where the rain wilds were alive and exciting. The more Fitz or Fool there is, the less I like it, which is something of a liability in a series largely about Fitz and the Fool.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

I read the Liveship Traders first, and loved it, grim though it is. Going back and reading Farseer was so disappointing: dry and dull where the rain wilds were alive and exciting. The more Fitz or Fool there is, the less I like it, which is something of a liability in a series largely about Fitz and the Fool.

I have struggled with Liveship books, have only made it around 200pps into book 1. I know I'll like it, but I really enjoyed the first Fitz and Fool trilogy and liked both of those characters. So I guess I'm opposite to yourself - vive la difference!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I read the Liveship Traders first, and loved it, grim though it is. Going back and reading Farseer was so disappointing: dry and dull where the rain wilds were alive and exciting. The more Fitz or Fool there is, the less I like it, which is something of a liability in a series largely about Fitz and the Fool.

Good god. Total reverse here. Whenever Fitz or the Fool isn't in a scene I'm thinking "What are Fitz and the Fool doing?".

Personally I found the Rain Wilds stuff to be like, okay. I liked the pirate (Kennit? It's been a couple of decades) and his lady and their messed-up relationship, I kind of liked the older young lady for her spunk, and loathed her younger sister (I get it, she's a kid but what an awful kid - and her character arc is basically from one type of bratty jerk to a very different kind of bratty jerk, wow what a great arc lol), but most of the other characters (including most of the ships) ooof, no, please die. Your problems? I don't feel for you. Oh you're turning into a dragon a bit? Well sucks to be you? Ever considered not being a settler-colonialist? (I get that the books know they are and is trying to discuss that, but good god).

I have struggled with Liveship books, have only made it around 200pps into book 1. I know I'll like it, but I really enjoyed the first Fitz and Fool trilogy and liked both of those characters. So I guess I'm opposite to yourself - vive la difference!

I and literally everyone I know who has read those books (which is admittedly like six people, not a large sample size) is on the same side of this as you. Liveship stuff - hard to get through. Fitz and the Fool? Great. I've read all of them, some 2-3 times. I finished the first Liveship trilogy (more thanks to Kennit than anyone else I swear) but I never got around to the second and I doubt I ever will.

Not Hobb's worst misfire though, that'd be the Soldier Son trilogy, set in a different, 1700s sort of gunpowder fantasy setting, also about settler-colonialism and bad things happening to people who engage in it. It's about this initially-teenage boy, who is like, fundamentally a coward in a very unusually unattractive way, and like, on all levels, intellectual, moral, physical. He's not that smart, he's not that nice, he's not that empathetic to others, he's from a relatively wealthy background, and like his biggest problem is he has a terrible relationship with his dad (obviously relatable for a lot of people, but also limits his excuses because it's just not that big a deal) and FOR MAGICAL REASONS he's kinda fat (though clearly not obese, at least not early on, but he doesn't even have himself to blame and he knows it), and like it's very clear Hobb expects us to feel extremely sorry for him (not like him alone, to be clear, Hobb never fails to recognise settler-colonialism sucks most for the indigenous people involved), but like, somehow the fact that he's quite easy to understand, quite easy to relate to, just makes everything he does, every little bit of cowardice and stupidity and thoughtlessness so much worse, because you can say, with confidence, as a kid who went through some of the same stuff (and we all have been through some of what he goes through, I think), "This guy totally sucks, and I know I would have done way better in the same situation, because I've been in similar situations, and I did way better!". And the self-pity oh my god the self-pity this guy engages in. On some level I think there's a bit of critique of like, white male settler-colonialists and their endless self-pity (which is absolutely a thing, just read anything written by an English guy in the colonies circa 1650-1890, absolute wallowers most of them, either that or psychos), but she's also just too sympathetic to him, and honestly I'm not sure what we're supposed to taking away apart from "This guys sucks, the witch who made him fat also sucks, the situation sucks, and everyone involved is kind of hateful".

I love most of Hobb's work, but my god that is one of my firmest disrecommendations.

 

[Minion X]

On some level I think there's a bit of critique of like, white male settler-colonialists and their endless self-pity (which is absolutely a thing, just read anything written by an English guy in the colonies circa 1650-1890,

So you think you would do better too at being shipped away from the power and luxury of the imperial core to huddle in some disease-ridden, sweltering hellhole on the fringes of civilization? There is a reason why places like Australia doubled as penal colonies, so a bit of griping from ambitious young men deprived of the chance at scheming their way up the social ladder is only to be expected. I will assume that you heard similar stories from Romans posted to Hadrian's Wall instead of living it up in Syria or Carthage.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So you think you would do better too at being shipped away from the power and luxury of the imperial core to huddle in some disease-ridden, sweltering hellhole on the fringes of civilization? There is a reason why places like Australia doubled as penal colonies, so a bit of griping from ambitious young men deprived of the chance at scheming their way up the social ladder is only to be expected. I will assume that you heard similar stories from Romans posted to Hadrian's Wall instead of living it up in Syria or Carthage.

I assume you're referring purely to the RL colonizers, not the book? I was talking about relative to the awful guy in the book rather than them, but still, on that basis:

I don't think I'd wallow in self-pity and moan endlessly, no. I'd be deeply embarrassed to, even in my own diary. I think that's a personality issue/skill issue, and I think having a rubbish personality was absolutely encouraged by the British upper and upper-middle classes in that era (maybe it still is, I'm a bit too close to that subject to tell). There's no way that many men were that self-pitying by accident. It's particularly bad when they're talking about the rapes or even beatings/murders (often of slaves or similar) they did and are still like "woe is me!". Like DIAF diary-writer.

Re: Rome etc. I'm sure there was some of that, history does not much record sadly, but wallowing in self-pity in that way doesn't really seem to be a Roman trait, not that they had any shortage of heinously negative traits.

 

[Minion X]

Re: Rome etc. I'm sure there was some of that, history does not much record sadly, but wallowing in self-pity in that way doesn't really seem to be a Roman trait, not that they had any shortage of heinously negative traits.

By the time Hadrian's Wall was built, at least, Rome was well into its long decline. Like how soldiers stationed there had to write home to their mothers for warm socks.

 

[Reynard]

What, on your opinion, is the best stand alone fantasy novel ever?

I am pretty sure mine is The Last Unicorn. The prose is a thing of beauty, let alone the actual story.

I also really, really like The Heroes by Abercrombie.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

What, on your opinion, is the best stand alone fantasy novel ever?

Ooohh. Not sure.

The Last Unicorn has got to be in contention. It's a truly beautiful read.

But I shall have a think and see if I can come up with other contenders.

 

[jian]

In spite of the author, I think Stardust is a wonderful standalone fantasy novel.