Fast Paced Martial Arts Combat...which do you feel is best?

[halomachine]

OK...New to the boards here. My first post is gonna be a poll! Wanna get some feedback for a project I am working on. Its a unique fantasy martial arts OGL game/setting that will combine some rather unqiue elements into a fresh new exciting setting (more info to come in the near future). Pick an option and make a post (if you want).

 

[halomachine]

23 views......only 3 votes....

Maybe a few tidbits about the game are needed to spurn the curiosity.....

The OGL game/setting will be one of two lines that I will be putting together detailing the ancient times of earthand the distant future of earth.... this first one will be called Aeon Dawn. It will be set during the most ancient times when the mysterious Atlantis existed....the setting will have a heavy Egyptian flavor combined with over-the-top fantasy martial arts and magic all wrapped up in a anime-like setting.

(the second book will take place in the distant future after an apocalypse...it will be a future sci fi fantasy horror setting utilizing the same system as Aeon Dawn...down to the over-the-top martial arts..)

 

[Ibram]

I think that the Damage save would work best for a fast paced martial arts system. that way you could have large fights with low level chumps while still allowing for one hit take downs.

 

[halomachine]

I think that the Damage save would work best for a fast paced martial arts system. that way you could have large fights with low level chumps while still allowing for one hit take downs.

I agree completely...but I'm wanting to see what the majority of gamers would rather use. I'll be developing the game with the method that gets the most votes of the next week or so...and then having an appendix with quik rules on how to use the other(s).

 

[d4]

The OGL game/setting will be one of two lines that I will be putting together detailing the ancient times of earthand the distant future of earth.... this first one will be called Aeon Dawn. It will be set during the most ancient times when the mysterious Atlantis existed....the setting will have a heavy Egyptian flavor combined with over-the-top fantasy martial arts and magic all wrapped up in a anime-like setting.

(the second book will take place in the distant future after an apocalypse...it will be a future sci fi fantasy horror setting utilizing the same system as Aeon Dawn...down to the over-the-top martial arts..)

not to be rude, but why does it sound like you're basically rewriting WW's Exalted and Aeon/Trinity?

 

[halomachine]

not to be rude, but why does it sound like you're basically rewriting WW's Exalted and Aeon/Trinity?

Exalted is an anime insipired game set in ancient times...and well..I've never actually read Aeon/Trinity but from what I've heard its more of a sci fi type game...

Aeon Dawn uses a martial arts system I've been developing for a while....but I didn't want to do the typical asian setting....so I decided to use ancient egypt/atlantis as it is a part of history that I have studied since I was a kid...(with the now gone cartoon Mummies Alive as a wee bit of inspiration). I admit there may be some similarities...but there will be more than enough differences. I can talk all day about how this and that is/will be different.....but in the end you'll have to decide for yourself after I've finished it...

the future one I will be a gritty dead world type scavenged technology meets mystical martial arts....like The Matrix trilogy...but without the matrix vistual world...

 

[halomachine]

Well, it seems that the Damage Save type system has taken a hefty lead.....


Aeon Dawn Snippets.....

The players will take the role of an Aeon, supernatural humans who are able to harness the ambient energies of the world into a multitude of superhuman and mystical effects. They are the warriors, sorcerers, demons and angels of myth. Much of modern mythology is but twisted stories of the ancient Aeons. Aeons were born to an ancient time in which magical forces were ever present and was the equivelant of todays technologies...these beings are humans who have the ability to transform their physical body into an avatar of magical energy.

Characters will each select a Mark that they are born under. This Mark will play a similar role as character races do in other fantasy rpgs. Examples of Marks include: Mark of Ra, Mark of Anubis, Mark of Set, Mark of Isis....etc. A character's mark will determine their saving throw progessions as well as their available classes.

Character classes will all follow the same BAB progression as well as BDB (Base Defense Bonus) progression, skill points and class skils and receive the same number of Training (used for improving stats, buying feats, learning new auras)& Technique (for buying techniques) points each level.

Characters will need to transform into their avatar in order to use Aura's and techniques. Each Aura will have a stigmata (obvious visual, audio, sonic, or other effect) and have a whole swath of techniques that can be used with that aura. Charatcter will constantly shift between auras in the course of adventure and combat

example would be the Firagra Aura. Stigmata might be flaming or smoking hands that do not burn actually burn. Technique might be Fist of Flame, which might allow the Aeon's flaming fists deal additional fire damage for a number of rounds.

questions?....questions?...anyone?...questions?...k

more to come......stay tuned

 

[JimAde]

Well, ok. You've got my attention

Though I voted VP/WP since I'm not a fan of the one-hit takedown.

That sounds like a very cool setting. I have definitely not seen it before. I'll subscribe to this thread, so please post any more info you have here.

Good luck!

 

[ledded]

I have to go with WP/VP.


Our group used WP/VP in d20 Modern, and we did a 3-session playtest of Charles Rice's Blood and Fists:Hong Kong Knights product using just a big bunch of martial artsy guys.

Here's the main reasons we like it:

1) Low level mooks go down easy; most likely they have only WP so even if a strike doesnt kill them it's easy to force the Fort save vs. going unconscious for taking WP damage. *Smack* you break his nose badly, he drops, but isnt necessarily dead.

2) VP damage makes a lot of sense when you watch martial artists fight in movies or in sparring. They strike, weave, bob, getting hit and hitting in return. No seriously lasting harm is done until someone gets in the final punch against the wounded (out of VP) enemy, or gets that 'lucky hit'. It may not be real life per se, but it does make for good fun. Since VP often return much faster than hit points, you can take a pretty decent beating, but as long as you didnt take WP damage or a ton of VP damage you'll be ok in as little as a few hours.

3) Criticals are such that no one is ever totally safe, since crits go straight to WP, bypassing your VP. Even if you are Mr 20th-level-I-never-fail-MDT-saves, a crit from a 1st level mook has the possiblity of putting you out. Not very likely, but it could happen.

4) No problem with non-lethal vs subdual vs whatever system for that type of damage. Everybody takes VP damage until they get to WP. At that point, if you are brawling or otherwise fighting so that you can only do subdual, you don't actually cause WP damage, but the person you smacked has to make the save *as if they did* (which I think is DC 5 + WP damage dealt total in a round). So while it's not simple to just knock someone out with one blow, it's sometimes a little less convoluted (IMO) that MDT/hit points.
In play, we would have martial arts matches until someone dropped. At that point, we would replay the 'killing round' and after using MDT to see how it panned out. MDT allowed folks to survive crits and keep going after massive damage much better than not, and at the levels we were playing at (12th - 15th level) people were having to roll one or more MDT saves per round, nearly every time they got hit. That got annoying really quick, considering at that level most folks didnt fail the static DC except on an extremely low roll or natural one, and everyone had multiple attacks.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. If you havent, check out Blood and Fists 1 or 2 (Hong Kong Knights) if you are using a d20 Modern base. Heck, it could work for pretty much any d20 base if you did a little tweaking.

 

[halomachine]

Well, ok. You've got my attention

Though I voted VP/WP since I'm not a fan of the one-hit takedown.

As much as people say "Mutants and Masterminds' damage save system makes it too easy to take someone out with one hit...I don't really see that myself. I've played several Superhero camps using M&M and haven't really had that problem. On top of that....when scaled into a setting that doesn't have characters running around with the strength to crush a planet with their pinky finger...it makes those I hit take downs that much more rare. Besides, If I were to implement a system like it, I would tailor it more for the martial arts genre...so there would be some changes in how things work a bit...

Don't get me wrong...I do see the merits of a VP/WP system though! I just feel that a damage save system (done carefully and cautiously) takes a decent sized chunk of micromangament out of combat....speeding them up and making them more action packed in a way... (i've always seen the damage save system as a happy middle ground between the storyteller combat and d20 combat)

That sounds like a very cool setting. I have definitely not seen it before. I'll subscribe to this thread, so please post any more info you have here.

Good luck!

Most definatly! Keep checking back. I'm working a website for it as well....(should be done after I complete a site for a model friend of mine..)

1) Low level mooks go down easy; most likely they have only WP so even if a strike doesnt kill them it's easy to force the Fort save vs. going unconscious for taking WP damage. *Smack* you break his nose badly, he drops, but isnt necessarily dead.

Good point...

2) VP damage makes a lot of sense when you watch martial artists fight in movies or in sparring. They strike, weave, bob, getting hit and hitting in return. No seriously lasting harm is done until someone gets in the final punch against the wounded (out of VP) enemy, or gets that 'lucky hit'. It may not be real life per se, but it does make for good fun. Since VP often return much faster than hit points, you can take a pretty decent beating, but as long as you didnt take WP damage or a ton of VP damage you'll be ok in as little as a few hours.

Very good point...it does fit nicely in that aspect.

3) Criticals are such that no one is ever totally safe, since crits go straight to WP, bypassing your VP. Even if you are Mr 20th-level-I-never-fail-MDT-saves, a crit from a 1st level mook has the possiblity of putting you out. Not very likely, but it could happen.

Criticals are definatly nicer with VP/WP.

4) No problem with non-lethal vs subdual vs whatever system for that type of damage. Everybody takes VP damage until they get to WP. At that point, if you are brawling or otherwise fighting so that you can only do subdual, you don't actually cause WP damage, but the person you smacked has to make the save *as if they did* (which I think is DC 5 + WP damage dealt total in a round). So while it's not simple to just knock someone out with one blow, it's sometimes a little less convoluted (IMO) that MDT/hit points.
In play, we would have martial arts matches until someone dropped. At that point, we would replay the 'killing round' and after using MDT to see how it panned out. MDT allowed folks to survive crits and keep going after massive damage much better than not, and at the levels we were playing at (12th - 15th level) people were having to roll one or more MDT saves per round, nearly every time they got hit. That got annoying really quick, considering at that level most folks didnt fail the static DC except on an extremely low roll or natural one, and everyone had multiple attacks.

I've never really felt right about this part of VP/WP....kinda prefer HP and Stun damage over this

Anyway, just my 2 cents. If you havent, check out Blood and Fists 1 or 2 (Hong Kong Knights) if you are using a d20 Modern base. Heck, it could work for pretty much any d20 base if you did a little tweaking.

2 cents is always welcome! I have Blood and Fists 1 (used it in my d20M camp...great book). I wasn't aware of a second one....but Hong Kong Knights definatly looks like a too buy book! Not much in them will really help with my project though....they represent (probaly in the best way possible) real world martial arts while I'm going for straight fantasy wuxia stuff...from Ancient Egypt (far far far from real martial arts!)