Feats that Should Be Skill Tricks

[roguerouge]

What feats would you remake as skill tricks (as seen in Complete Scoundrel)?

I think my first vote would be for Goad, which allows for an expanded use of an existing skill, but is so underpowered that I can hardly imagine someone using a feat slot on it. Goad allows you to force a single opponent that threatens you to attack you if they use a melee attack that round, but they can still opt to not attack you and attack someone else with a ranged attack, a spell, use an item, move, etc.

What feats would you nominate to be demoted to skill trick status?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, the Complete Warrior one that lets you turn during a charge (Fleet of Foot?) was made into a skill trick already...

Lots of Tactical feats that use skill checks could be broken down into tricks. I love combat Panache, but really. One of the tactics is amazing and could easily be a once/comat skill trick (Sneering Glower), one is amusing and situational and might pass muster as a skill trick (Play Dead), and the third option just plain sucks. I don't even remember what it's called, it's so bad.

 

[Shin Okada]

None, I say. Because I don't like skill tricks rule at all.

 

[green slime]

none, i say. Because i don't like skill tricks rule at all.

qft

 

[roguerouge]

Thank you for your informative post. [sarcasm]

Perhaps either of you would like to inform me as to WHY you don't like skill tricks, rather than just thread-crapping? Seriously. I'm listening. I'm perfectly willing to listen to why I shouldn't emphasize them in my game, but your say-so is not going to convince me.

 

[Starbuck_II]

What feats would you remake as skill tricks (as seen in Complete Scoundrel)?

I think my first vote would be for Goad, which allows for an expanded use of an existing skill, but is so underpowered that I can hardly imagine someone using a feat slot on it. Goad allows you to force a single opponent that threatens you to attack you if they use a melee attack that round, but they can still opt to not attack you and attack someone else with a ranged attack, a spell, use an item, move, etc.

What feats would you nominate to be demoted to skill trick status?

Well, Skill tricks are not exactly worth a feat, but too good for free.

Dodge from the PHB fits for me personally. I mean, it is only +1 dodge bonus versus 1 opponent.
But to make it worth the skill trick, let it be used as an immediate reaction (someone attacking you) rather than activate it prior.

Granted, since later feats were built with it in mind; it would have to involve redoing them as well.

 

[Shin Okada]

Thank you for your informative post. [sarcasm]

Perhaps either of you would like to inform me as to WHY you don't like skill tricks, rather than just thread-crapping? Seriously. I'm listening. I'm perfectly willing to listen to why I shouldn't emphasize them in my game, but your say-so is not going to convince me.

Well, basically, there are 3 reasons I hate this optional rule.

1st, as already pointed out, many of the tricks are too good for "almost free".

2nd, as a result of the 1st reason, the importance of extra skill points, thus INT, suddenly become more important. And the importance of number of feats slightly lessons. This harms classes like Fighter.

3rd, by introducing this rule to the campaign, character making and leveling up both become much complex. As a DM, I have to create tons of NPCs and monsters with skills for each sessions and adventures. Also, amongst 6 players of my current main campaign, 3 are new to DnD. They are learning fast. But I still have to advice them when they make decisions on leveling-up. So I don't like to introduce this rather heavy new concept.

 

[roguerouge]

Thank you.

 

[Najo]

I would also add that skill tricks also often divert a non-combat resource into a combat resource, causing more min/maxing and a greater power divergence between equal level characters.

I would like to double everything Shin Okada's points out too.

 

[green slime]

And to counter my supposed "thread-crapping":

Try asking yourself instead "Why?"

Why do we need these skill tricks?

Couldn't these "tricks" be included in the game satisfactorily by mechanics already existant within the game, without further complicating the game?

What is lacking so that we need to have these additional definitions?

IMNSHO, We don't need them for a variety of reasons:
1) They complicate the game needlessly, without providing any real additional benefit. (see below)
2) Anything they allow a character to achieve could be done already, either by using a skill check against a DC, or through use of a feat. All it requires is that the DM uses a bit of imagination in setting a fair DC. Possibly by discussing this with his players.
3) They don't provide anything in the way of flavour, and require an additional ruleset to be present at the table.
4) Yet more rules for the DM to master and the players to learn, with no real tangible gain.

By using a skill DC you're saying "This is possible, go for it". A prime fun-factor motivator during the design of 3.x

By using a skill tricks based on ranks, you're setting yourself up to say "Nope. You can't. Not unless you are really well trained." Which, by the way, is really a function of feats. Feats are binary (On-Off, Yes-No), whereas skills are graduated. Skill tricks break this game design, and lead to the path of madness.