Feinting before Improved Trip

[Cor Azer]

My apologies if there's been other threads on this topic, I didn't notice one (but I admit I only scanned a few pages).

If a character has both Improved Feint and Improved Trip (or, I guess, it could work with normal feinting over 2 turns), presuming the attacker successfully feints, which attacks deny the defender his Dex bonus to AC:
1. Just the melee touch attack for trip
2. Just the normal attack gained for a successful trip due to Improved Trip
3. Both

I suspect the answer is 1, but (hope?) think 3 could be possible, because most times when an ability/feat lets you gain a bonus attack, it has all the same modifiers/conditions as the initial one.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think it's 1, unfortunately. So, if you were trying to get Sneak Attack damage on the extra attack... not a very good combo. Feint benefits your next attack, which would be the touch attack.

As for your reasoning for the same condition applying to an extra attack, let me try to provide a counter example. The Fighter has the Cleave feat and invisibility cast upon him. He attacks and fells the first enemy, and gets his free cleave attack. Would you as DM let him get the bonuses for invisibility on the cleave attack? I would not, the first attack ends the spell, just as the first attack ends the benefit of feinting.

 

[hornedturtle]

I always thought of the attack gained from cleave to be from the same motion as the first attack. So that neither enemy would have the time to realize what was happening.

 

[Angrydad]

I always thought of the attack gained from cleave to be from the same motion as the first attack. So that neither enemy would have the time to realize what was happening.

I think I'd agree with you on this one, but it's really a matter of ruling by the DM. As the DM most of the time in my games I would allow this to work as you've stated.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Huh. Oh well, guess my view is the minority. Hurray for the OP, then.

 

[frankthedm]

If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.

How does that read any way but OP's #3?

 

[Cor Azer]

How does that read any way but OP's #3?

Hence my uncertainly in original question.