Fighters as enchanters?

[Saeviomagy]

Something just struck me. Fighters (any completely non-spellcasting class) without magic items are lame at all but the lowest levels. This is a fact.

Fighters at higher levels are therefore depending on mages to make them magic gear.

A lot of the legends and stories that you hear or read don't mention legendary magical weapons or armour being created by wizards. As an (admittedly) outdated example in 2nd ed, dwarves were supposedly master smiths, but would be unable to create magic weapons due to the fact that they had no mages.

What if... bear with me here. What if warriors were allowed to take item crafting feats? All you have to do is replace caster level with a set number of appropriate craft ranks (ie caster level +3). Or perhaps BAB? Warrior level?

Don't replace the prerequisite spells on anything though. They're still required for anything unusual.

The sum effect? A warrior would be able to make +x weapons, +x armour, and those +x to a skill items. He would need some form of magic support (ie - a mage, or an item capable of casting the spell required) to create anything flashy, like a flaming sword or the like. This makes the truly powerful items more of a fusion of the efforts of multiple involved parties, rather than just the domain of magic users. It also makes craft wondrous item just a little bit less powerful (you'd need the craft skill for the specific item you want to produce).

Anyone think of any serious problems with this? Or suggestions as to how to make it more of a warrior thing than a wizard thing (wizards can still take craft ranks and I really like the idea of having to multiclass or team up to produce items).

 

[Merlion]

Thats not a bad idea, and it is in line with myth in some ways...magical crafting and the ability to cast spells werent always exclusively linked. Its a little out of line with most DnD game worlds of course.
Me I favor the questing/adventuring to gain magic items(which I think are a little to common thease days) aproach.

 

[Chun-tzu]

There's a prestige class in Magic of Rokugan called the Master Smith that comes from the same idea. It's actually a prestige class for Samurai, and it allows them to make magic weapons without any pellcaster levels.

So that's another way to go, as prestige classes require a bit more commitment than feats.

 

[magnas_veritas]

What if... bear with me here. What if warriors were allowed to take item crafting feats? All you have to do is replace caster level with a set number of appropriate craft ranks (ie caster level +3). Or perhaps BAB? Warrior level?

Anyone think of any serious problems with this? Or suggestions as to how to make it more of a warrior thing than a wizard thing (wizards can still take craft ranks and I really like the idea of having to multiclass or team up to produce items).

Not as written, no. It's not particularly necessary, because the game assumes you'll get a lot of your equipment by prying it from the cold, dead hands of your opponents. However, it's an interesting idea.

To do this, take one of two routes. Create a feat or series of feats with hideous requirements, or a prestige class with almost as hideous requirements, or both. Which you go with depends on if you want the party fighters cranking out +5 weapons for their mages and clerics to further enchant, or if you just want a source of magic weapons without having any sufficiently irritating magi around.

The feats below are possibly a bit mean, as Wondrous Forger can only be taken as a general feat, so you won't see either of the other feats until 15th level. I specifically disallow special qualities, as there are some that just require caster level and no spells known. But, this way, the great smiths (i.e. experts and some fighters and rogues) can learn how to make cool weapons.

Wondrous Forger:
You have learned the secret of imbuing magical energy into weapons and armor. Preq: 2 of Craft (Armorsmith, Bowmaking, or Weaponsmith) at 15+ ranks each. Benefit: You may imbue magical energy into martial items, and learn the feats of Wondrous Armorer, Wondrous Bowyer, and Wondrous Weaponsmith.

Wondrous Armorer:
You may enchant armor and shields with magical power. Preq: Wondrous Forger, 15+ ranks of Craft (Armorsmith). Benefit: You may enchant armor and shields as if you had Craft Magical Arms & Armor and your caster level were your Craft (Armorsmith) ranks -8. A character with Wondrous Armorer and Craft (Armorsmith) ranks of 18 may create magical armor as if he were a 10th-level caster. No special qualities may be added to the armor.

Wondrous Bowyer:
You may enchant bows, crossbows, arrows, and bolts with magical power. Preq: Wondrous Forger, 15+ ranks of Craft (Bowmaking). Benefit: As Wondrous Armorer, but with bows, crossbows, arrows, and bolts and Craft (Bowmaking).

Wondrous Weaponsmith:
You may enchant weapons with magical power. Preq: Wondrous Forger, 15+ ranks of Craft (Weaponsmith). Benefit: As Wondrous Armorer, but with weapons (excluding bows, crossbows, arrows, and bolts) and Craft (Weaponsmith).

Brad

Edit: Added "you had Craft Magic Arms & Armor and", as otherwise casters are not able to make magical weapons or armor.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Unfortunately those feats are giving advantages which are far outstripped by their prerequisites. A 15th level character gets to make items as someone 5 levels below them, in exchange for four feats to the caster's one? AND he can still not produce anything with special powers. Sorry, but that just makes the whole thing pointless.

Much better to go with the crafting feats as-written, but at caster level of craft ranks - 3. Remember - skill points are very precious to a fighter (although less so to a rogue). I can even see some spellcasting classes going down the craft skill route (seeing as how a 10 cleric/10 wizard can't produce a +5 weapon...)

 

[Chacal]

Much better to go with the crafting feats as-written, but at caster level of craft ranks - 3. Remember - skill points are very precious to a fighter (although less so to a rogue).

How about Casterlevel =min(BAB, craft-3) ? It would balance it between Rogues and Fighters.
I really like the idea of giving some "magic" to the non-casting classes.

Chacal

 

[Gez]

I had the same thought, but rather than giving item creation feats to fighters (or others), I thought of a feat that could allow to create one item.

Prerequisite was something like Craft (relevant craft) 9 ranks. The feat allow you to create one item symbolically tied to yourself (a fighter would create weapons or armors, rather than instant fortresses), worth up to (square your HD) times 500. If you lose the item (stolen or destroyed, but not given or traded), you may create a new one after 1 year. Otherwise, you can create another item by taking the feat again.

Skill ranks and class abilities replace spells for prerequisite. DM's discretion. For example, a ranger could make bane weapons against his favored enemies, a rogue with high stealth skills could create boots and cloaks "elvenkind", etc.

All other item creation rules apply -- half the cost in raw material, one day of intense work per 1000 gp, etc.

 

[Cyraneth]

I recall an article from Dragon Magazine, detailing spontaneous enchantments. It was about dramatic or epic situations enchanting items by the situation's sheer force of "cosmic impact" or something like that... Something like, if an ordinary sword was used to kill a legendary dragon (to deal the killing blow or something equally important), it might be enchanted by legend to become "the legendary dragonslayer sword" e.i. +? dragon bane sword...

Just an idea, though...

- Cyraneth

 

[Azure Trance]

Upon reaching 4th level, you may spend XP to imbue your items (or yourself) with magic. The cost is one-fifth what the regular market price would be for the enchantment. For example, a +1 sword has a market price of 2,000 gp (plus the cost of the sword itself), so the XP cost of imbuing it would be 400 XP. This process takes one day per 1,000 gp market price, just as for item creation. The Signature Item feat (see below) reduces the XP cost by one-half for the purposes of imbuing one specific item. An imbued item must be one that takes up an item slot.

Taken from Hongs DnD Page.

EDIT

Whoops? No URL? http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/imbued_magic.htm

 

[Pax]

There's a prestige class in Magic of Rokugan called the Master Smith that comes from the same idea. It's actually a prestige class for Samurai, and it allows them to make magic weapons without any pellcaster levels.

So that's another way to go, as prestige classes require a bit more commitment than feats.

That is how I would likely do it (if I weren't avoiding OA as apersonal protest against the d20-ing fo Rokugan ... bleh ...).

BTW, neat image ... what's the character mean, anyway?