D&D General Fixing the Great Weapon Fighting Style

[Lord Twig]

My understanding is that the Great Weapon Fighting style is considered “bad.” It raises the average damage of a greataxe from 6.5 to 6.75, which is really terrible. It is better for a greatsword and maul as it raises the damage from 7 to 8. But even that is just half of what the Dueling Fighting Style does.

So here is my proposed fix. I would like to know if people feel it is too good, not good enough, still bad, or even worse.

Great Weapon Fighting​

Fighting Style Feat (Prerequisite: Fighting Style Feature)

When you roll damage for an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding with two hands and it is less than the average damage of the weapon, you can treat damage roll as the average damage (rounded down). So d8 weapons deal a minimum of 4 damage, d10 weapons deal a minimum of 5 damage, d12 weapons deal a minimum of 6 damage and 2d6 weapons deal a minimum of 7 damage. The weapon must have the Two-Handed or Versatile property to gain this benefit.

 

[Clint_L]

I like your point about the problem but I don't love that solution as it will make rolls really weird. For example, with a greatsword more than half of all rolls will just be "7." Also, the "rounded down" makes greatswords better yet when compared to weapons that use a single die.

Why not just say it adds a flat +2 to damage? Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

 

[ECMO3]

Not a fan. I think GWF is fine as is and it is about average as far as the fighting styles go. It certainly is not the worst one.

 

[Lord Twig]

I like your point about the problem but I don't love that solution as it will make rolls really weird. For example, with a greatsword more than half of all rolls will just be "7." Also, the "rounded down" makes greatswords better yet when compared to weapons that use a single die.

Why not just say it adds a flat +2 to damage? Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

True, a +2 would be simple and technically "equal" to the Dueling fighting style, but I was worried it might be too good for two-handed weapons.

I have heard that quite a few people have just stuck with the 2014 version of re-rolling 1s and 2s, which, I believe, raise the average of the greatsword from 7 to 8.33 and the greataxe from 6.5 to 7.33. So +1.33 and +.88 respectively.

My version raises the greatsword from 7 to 8.5 and raises the greataxe from 6.5 to 7.75. So +1.5 and 1.25 respectively. I think this makes it more valuable without taking Dueling's thunder and isn't more complicated than the Reliable Talent that the Rogue has. Half of thier rolls are 10, but that doesn't seem to cause any problems.

 

[Lord Twig]

Not a fan. I think GWF is fine as is and it is about average as far as the fighting styles go. It certainly is not the worst one.

I think the math doesn't agree with you here, but I appreciate your feedback. Both responses have been a negative so far, but we will see if anyone else adds their input. I might just say that Great Weapon Fighting is equal to Dueling like Clint_L suggested.

 

[Gorck]

A simpler fix would be, instead of treating 1 or 2 as a 3, just reroll a 1 or 2.

 

[AlViking]

Looking at just numbers a 1d12 weapon averages 6.5, with GWF it's 7.5 (+15%). At 2d6 it goes from 7 to 9 (+30%), for dueling it's 4.5 to 6.5 (+45%). Technically dueling increases damage more but I don't think it's enough of a difference to even notice at the table.

That extra attack on a crit can also be quite significant. A raging barbarian is likely to be attacking recklessly and getting a crit 10% of their attacks, as is a champion fighter. Unless you're always using your bonus action for other things considering multiple attacks per round it adds up. Exact numbers are going to vary of course depending on various assumptions.

So I think they're fine as they are.

 

[billd91]

Let's not confuse the Great Weapon Fighting STYLE feat with the Great Weapon MASTER feat. There's nothing wrong with the Great Weapon Master feat.

But I agree that the Great Weapon Fighting style is weak compared to other fighting style feats. If we look at it with a versatile weapon like the longsword compared to a duelist, the duelist gets an average damage of 6.5 (the normal 4.5 for the d8 +2 from the style) on a range of 3-10. By comparison, the great weapon fighting style character wields it with two hands for 5.8 (the normal 5.5 for the d10 +.3 from the style) on a range of 3-10. They'd generally have been better off being a duelist and using the sword one-handed.
I'd just go with the +2 flat damage addition for simplicity's sake.

 

[AlViking]

Let's not confuse the Great Weapon Fighting STYLE feat with the Great Weapon MASTER feat. There's nothing wrong with the Great Weapon Master feat.

But I agree that the Great Weapon Fighting style is weak compared to other fighting style feats. If we look at it with a versatile weapon like the longsword compared to a duelist, the duelist gets an average damage of 6.5 (the normal 4.5 for the d8 +2 from the style) on a range of 3-10. By comparison, the great weapon fighting style character wields it with two hands for 5.8 (the normal 5.5 for the d10 +.3 from the style) on a range of 3-10. They'd generally have been better off being a duelist and using the sword one-handed.
I'd just go with the +2 flat damage addition for simplicity's sake.

Taking GWF while still primarily using a versatile weapon seems like a pretty niche scenario though. Only ones I've ever seen take it are using two-handed weapons as their primary weapon. About the only time I've seen it is when someone switches from a primary to something like a warhammer because they want to push enemies around.

 

[billd91]

Taking GWF while still primarily using a versatile weapon seems like a pretty niche scenario though. Only ones I've ever seen take it are using two-handed weapons as their primary weapon. About the only time I've seen it is when someone switches from a primary to something like a warhammer because they want to push enemies around.

People may not use it much for versatile weapons, but as the OP showed with two-handed weapons, the benefit is still weak - slightly increasing average damage and increasing the minimum without increasing max damage. Moreover, it does it in a way that is weirdly inconsistent between single die weapons (d10 and d12) and multiple die weapons.
The other fighting styles that routinely add to weapon damage or hit probability do so consistently and with easy to see and understand results.