Flyby, liftoff?

[Wellby]

Dear Reader,

I'd like to do a fun sneak attack on the adventuring party, but don't think it'll work.

Currently, a Nycaloth is shadowing the group, and wants to kidnap a member. Looking over his stats, it seemed clear that (in a city setting, in the street as the party moved about), he would approach invisibly, and in the air. Then, what I WANTED to do was zip in, grab the gnome with the claws and liftoff. With flyby attack, this seemed possible.

Alas, as I read it, he only establishes a hold once he has hit with BOTH claw attacks, and then won the grapple check.

Thus, very unlike a hawk attack...he will first appear next to the gnome, and do some damage in the first round. In the second round, he will attack twice with claws and hope to establish a hold, but having attacked twice, will not be allowed to 'move'. In the THIRD round, if the rest of the party hasn't killed him, he can liftoff.

Alright, if he stands invisibly in the path of the gnome, I guess he could 'open' the first round by doing a full attack (no move needed when the gnome walked up to him) and try to establish the hold. then in the second round liftoff?

Is there any way I can make this 'cooler', or is it this clunky? ie., no hawkdive, grab gnome, fly away?

thanks! Wellby

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, if you specifically want to make use of Improved Grab, then yes, you need to hit with both claw attacks (which in turn requires a full attack action, and thus can't be done all in one round as the critter is statted out). However, the beast has Flyby Attack, which works with any standard action - like initiating a grapple - and Liftoff doesn't require that the critter be grappled via Improved Grab, just that the critter be grappled (and fit a few other criteria, but meh).

So with it's 90 foot Good fly speed, it can go down 40 feet (which consumes 20 feet of movement, thanks to downward flight rules), grab someone as a standard action (assuming it wins the touch attack and grapple check, of course... which is highly probable if it picks the target well), and head back up 35 feet (which consumes 70 feet of movement, thanks to upward flight rules).

 

[Wellby]

now that is interesting...

A grab/touch attack from invisibility...Now, normally of course, w/o improved Grab (in this case) the target would get an AOO...but, if the grab/touch is a surprise from invisibility...no AOO? simply touch (easy here), win grapple (zero problem vs this gnome)...then, though, it's now visible, so from liftoff, hmmmm, would the (equally surprised) adj party members get an AOO while it lifted off? I'm guessing no, as they have not yet 'moved'.

yes? and thanks for this

 

[Shin Okada]

While the Daemon is invisible, PCs who can't see invisible creature cannot make AoO, being surprised or not.

If surprised, PCs without Combat Reflex feat cannot make AoO, the target is visible or not.

But if I were a DM, I will at least allow PCs to make listen check (vs Nycaloth's Move Silently check) to avoid being surprised. The demon is hovering with his wings and thus not perfectly silent.

 

[Jack Simth]

now that is interesting...

A grab/touch attack from invisibility...Now, normally of course, w/o improved Grab (in this case) the target would get an AOO...but, if the grab/touch is a surprise from invisibility...no AOO? simply touch (easy here), win grapple (zero problem vs this gnome)...then, though, it's now visible, so from liftoff, hmmmm, would the (equally surprised) adj party members get an AOO while it lifted off? I'm guessing no, as they have not yet 'moved'.

yes? and thanks for this

Well, there's a few things here....

1) The critter has reach. Which means it's ten feet off the ground when it grabs the gnome (more if the gnome likes to ride horses or something).
2) The critter is invisible until after it tries (and, likely barring a one on the first die roll, succeeds) to grab the gnome. Unless someone beats their listen check (opposed by Move Silently - don't forget to the penalties for moving at full speed!), everyone's going to be flat-footed (so AoO's if they have Combat Reflexes, not so much otherwise).

So in order to take an AoO vs. the critter, the person on the ground has to have reach, and either have combat reflexes, or make a decent Listen check (although See Invisibility would also work) and beat the critter's initiative.