Followup Damage

[Setaroth]

If a power does damage as a followup to its main hit when a certain condition happens (such as the warlock's Dire Radiance spell, which stings the target if it gets closer) does the power's owner get to use any modifiers other than the base damage roll plus their ability bonus? In the case of the Dire Radiance, for instance, the dmg is 1d6 + Con once the condition is triggered. Do they also add an implement bonus, for instance?

(I'm writing some MapTool macros, so if the above sounds overtly mathematical, it's no coincidence).

Thanks in advance!

 

[Victim]

The power still has the Implement keyword, and it's a damage roll, so the bonus should still apply.

 

[Griogre]

I believe the implement bonus should only apply once to damage, though, not twice. My interpretation is the player should apply the damage to the intial damage roll since the next one may never trigger. However I would probably allow him to apply it to the second roll instead of the intial damage if he asked. I think it clear though that regardless, the implement should only give it's bonus to damage once per casting of the power.

 

[Nikosandros]

I believe the implement bonus should only apply once to damage, though, not twice. My interpretation is the player should apply the damage to the intial damage roll since the next one may never trigger. However I would probably allow him to apply it to the second roll instead of the intial damage if he asked. I think it clear though that regardless, the implement should only give it's bonus to damage once per casting of the power.

I disagree. The follow up is still a damage roll caused by the power with the implement keyword: the modifier should apply.

 

[James McMurray]

Implements add their bonus to damage rolls (p.225). Dire Radiance's secondary effect is a damage roll, so an implement will ad its bonus.

 

[Griogre]

While I can understand your interpretation, I don't agree with it. Let me explain my interpretation this way. Implements are to spells like what magical pluses are to weapons. If you have a +1 Flaming Weapon and roll a critical so you get the weapon damage and a 1d6 damage for the critical - I would not add the +1 magic bonus to both the critical die and the weapon die. I would just add +1 to the total. I believe it is the same of implements in this case so I would not add the implement bonus to each damage die of the Warlocks at-will.

In my case I interpret pg 225 to mean once to the total number of damage dice rolled.

 

[keterys]

Griogre - that's a perfectly reasonable house rule to take (though it has far ranging ripples you should factor in and adjust powers for), though I'll note you should clearly spell it out for figuring out all of the other powers that have secondary damage rolls, multiple damage rolls, aura damage rolls, entering and starting turn in zones, etc. Or perhaps you're just house ruling a couple powers, like hellish rebuke and dire radiance, nerfing warlocks slightly (which I don't think is a good idea).

It is not, however, the RAW. There is no ambiguity on this issue.

 

[kerbarian]

I've asked customer service about this a couple times. The first time, after some back and forth, I was told it was an errata issue and would be addressed in an upcoming FAQ. That was in June. When I eventually asked again, I was told that the enhancement bonus only applies to the initial attack, not any subsequent damage rolls, and that the enhancement bonus also doesn't apply to subsequent attack rolls granted by a power (e.g. Flaming Sphere).

IMO, this is a major, unclear issue in the rules, and I'd really like to see an official clarification one of these days.

 

[keterys]

I'd love to see things which hit multiple times nerfed across the board, myself, but I'm not sure I'd hold my breath on it happening soon

 

[DracoSuave]

If that were the case, Twin Strike wouldn't exactly work the way it does either.