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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6764215" data-attributes="member: 22779">That the gods may have once been mortal is largely irrelevant to whether or not something is a god.  The fact that gods aren't all powerful is also irrelevant.  Gods don't have to be omnipotent in order to be gods.  In fact, other that Ao, none of the FR gods are actually omnipotent - and this is perfectly in keeping with lots of pantheistic belief systems.  Also, you don't have to worship the gods.  That's stated right there in the books that it's not simply enough to not worship, but, rather, you have to go out of your way to deny the gods and actively betray the gods in order to get stuffed in the wall.As I said, Pwyll the Impious Potter doesn't get sent to the Wall.  He just cools his heels for a while in the Fugue Plane until he is judged.  For Pwyll to actually get sent to the wall, he has to do something deliberately to deny that the gods are actually gods.  And, again, in FR, he would be wrong.  Pwyll can believe whatever he wants to believe, but, that doesn't change the fact that Selune is a god.So, no, it isn't a valid point of view.  It's like trying to believe that dragons aren't really dragons.  Of course they're dragons.  That's what they are.  Belief doesn't enter into the equation.  You might not worship them, but, deny that they are gods at all is denying reality.  They really are gods.  There's no bait and switch here.  There's no con.  Torm is a god.  Full stop.  There is no real debate in this setting.  There is a concrete, distinct entity that you can empirically point to and say, "Yup, that's a god".  He/She/It is a god because it can do X, Y and Z and because He/She/It has worshippers.  ANYTHING with enough worshippers in FR can become a god.And, this, right here, is why I have such an issue with Planescape.  PS can make whatever claims it wants to make.  That's fine and dandy.  But, keep it in PS please.  That faction does not exist in FR.  PS tries to homogenise every setting by enforcing a single cosmology and contradicting the established canon of individual settings.  Yes, I agree that FR uses the Great Wheel.  But, the Great Wheel does not have to include PS elements.  It's simply a model for how the planes work.  When elves travel to another plane (I'm blanking on the name) through the portal in their lands, they come out into the Forgotten Realms version of the Great Wheel.  I hate the idea that as soon as I step off the Prime, I can walk down the street and find Torm's afterlife abutting next to Heironeous' and all of them surrounded by the rest of the D&D cosmologies all jammed together.Like I said before, if you remove the Fugue plane from FR, souls don't head off to alignment planes, they can't.  There's no way for a soul to travel to the outer planes in FR except through the Fugue plane.  All that other stuff from other settings doesn't apply.  When you Gate an Angel in FR, you don't Gate an angel of Heironeous.  You Gate an Angel of some LG FR God.  Otherwise, what's the point of having distinct cosmologies.  Might as well simply have one cosmology to rule them all and not bother having any distinctness at all.</blockquote>

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