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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6765161" data-attributes="member: 5834">This is a false position you could not prove if you tried. Ideas of good and evil have not remained consistent. If you read history, you find good and evil are not at all consistent throughout human history. They have changed over time often.Against your personal beliefs? So the Realms should adjust to your personal beliefs?All games are escapist. D&D wasn't modeled on good heroic fantasy as you claim. It was a combination of ideas from the creator that included a lot of literary and historical ideas incorporated into one game. You could play a lot of different ways. So your assumption it is heroic fantasy for guys that don't want things like the Wall of the Faithless in their game is bunk. Pure and simple. Lots of dark things done by good gods exist in D&D. Racism, slavery, and other things considered evil my modern standards were in the game and not considered evil. It was just part of the character of the place.No. You don't get it. When you're attempting to assert your concerns, you're downplaying my concerns. When you are saying things like you don't think good gods would have this and I know the game is modeled on real world religions that do punish the faithless, I consider it wrong of you to attempt to claim that isn't a part of D&D. D&D's religions were definitely modeled on real world religions. Not just Judeo-Christian, but pagan religions that definitely had consequences for faithlessness, a lack of belief.Gods are acting like jerks? Has that been a major part of every mythology I've ever read? Why yes it has. The ancient gods are even bigger jerks than the monotheistic god.  If you don't want it as part of your D&D game, than get rid of it. As far as the game itself, verisimilitude does require the gods act like jerks. It's pretty much the only thing they've done historically. Destroying cities for failing to properly worship them. Turning people into ugly monsters. Striking them dead. Fighting amongst themselves for supremacy. Humbling arrogant worshippers with some divine punishment. Sleeping around with pretty mortals. Walking the earth judging people depending on how they treat them.What model should D&D use to appease someone like you? Throw out all the real world examples of polytheism and monotheism so you don't have to worry about the jerk gods acting like jerks? What books on mythology and ancient religion have you been reading?You just admitted you were pushing your personal preferences. You just claimed things that aren't true like good and evil being consistent amongst humans, which has never been the case and isn't now. You want D&D to throw out its tradition of modeling religion on ancient mythology by incorporating ideas like The Wall of the Faithless to appease your personal beliefs, not whether or not mythological religions had similar things like Hades or Hel. The Wall of The Faithless is kinder than most religions because it allows you to go to a place where you eventually cease to exist versus what most religions do to the faithless: eternal punishment. That was true even in religions like the Greeks or Egyptians. If you didn't believe in them, you definitely answered to them after you died and they were none too happy if you were not a practicing believer.Of course, you make the D&D afterlife the way you want it. I don't even in general concern myself with what happens to a character after they die. I am concerned about PC people trying to force the game designers to move away from modeling D&D on ancient mythology. Gygax was definitely influenced by mythology. And the game designers built a very fun and interesting D&D mythology based on polytheism. I've always liked that the Realms had a punishment for being faithless. Makes the world more realistic, which I enjoy. Generic D&D allows generic worship of concepts. That isn't realistic to me. I played this game when they put Deities and Demigods. That book was a interesting walk through the ancient mythologies of a variety of historical cultures. I prefer D&D religions continue the tradition of mirroring the ancient world.</blockquote>

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