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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aboyd" data-source="post: 4855627" data-attributes="member: 44797">Well, I found something new that I want to add to the mix to try to see how it fits.  In Complete Warrior, there is this text:So... let's see if I can apply the rules in such a way as to make that text work.  According to table 4-4, you can spot something in plain sight with a DC of 0.  Ignore for the moment the text that says the DC is for spotting a large creature.  Instead, use the size modifiers listed under the Hide skill.  Thus, spotting a medium creature in plain sight is a DC 0, spotting a tiny creature in plain sight is a DC 8, and spotting a huge creature in plain sight is a DC -8 (or, pretty much you can't miss it).Now, according to the Spot skill, spotting at 300 feet would carry a 30 point penalty to Spot.  So spotting something huge from 300' away is a -8 + 30 = 22.  Right?  With the eagle's +15 to Spot, that means the eagle will spot a huge creature on the ground from 300' away with a roll of 7 or better.  That is in fact better than 50-50 odds.Next, they say it takes a DC 26 to Spot the eagle.  How?  According to what we just did, spotting a plainly visible creature has a DC of 0.  If they include the -30 penalty for distance, the DC is now 30.  However, the eagle is large, which confers a 4 point bonus to the Spot, for a total DC of 26.  Hey!  That's what they said.  Good.  And they mention that the enemy must be scanning the skies to get that DC.  Although they don't spell it out, the Spot skill mentions a -5 for those not actively trying to look for something.  So that would be a DC of 31 for those who are just walking around on the ground without deliberately looking up.OK, so from that example, I think I can figure out how Spot is intended to work.  You start with the DC 0 for plainly visible creatures.  You add in the size modifier from the Hide skill.  Then you add in the distance modifiers.  Then you add other goodies such as cover, if they are actively hiding, etc.  That confers a DC.I think that's how it's intended to work.  That would appear to be RAW.Now there is the issue of how stupid it is.  This means common people cannot see a six story building (a colossal sized creature) a block away, even if they stare until their eyes water.  In addition, it completely voids the "max spot distance" text that is listed with each terrain type.  The max spot distances are far more sane, but impossible to reach using the game mechanics as-is.  I think I agree with billd91 -- even not knowing how 3.0 D&D worked, I can say that 3.5 D&D has a terrible system for Spot.</blockquote>

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