Full attack action incorporating ranged and melee attacks

[two]

Is this possible, under the rules?

I don't care if the penalties for such a thing preclude anyone with half-a-brain trying it; I'm just asking if it's legal, according to the letter of the law.

Fighter1, feats: quickdraw, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot.

Dagger in each hand. New round. Starts combat 10' from Ork.

Fighter does a FULL ROUND ACTION. Throws dagger1, quick draws dagger 2. Using Rapid Shot, throws dagger2, then makes his 5' adjustment toward the Ork. Now in melee range, Fighter stabs ork with off-hand dagger.

Making an off-hand attack requires a full round action; as does using rapid shot. A full round action is being made. So can you use both or just one or..?

Augh, now I'm confused even more.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

There are no restrictions in the rules on using your different attacks in a round for different weapons, assuming of course that you have access to all of them (i.e. have them in hand or can get them as a free action). And of course, the fact that if that ends up involving two-weapon fighting in the sense of using both hands, there's the usual rule for that.

Yes, this can get confusing if you're using both melee and ranged weapons and have applicable extra-attack techniques to worry about. But that just means you need to apply the rules carefully. For example: let's look at Rapid Shot:

The character can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at the character's highest base attack bonus, but each attack (the extra one and the normal ones) suffers a -2 penalty. The character must use the full attack action to use this feat.

The extra attack must be with a ranged weapon, but there are no other restrictions on types of attack. In particular, there is no restriction on the other attacks. So, for example (just to keep everything to one hand) I could make my usual number of attacks with a dagger and then, as my extra attack, throw it, and all of my attacks that round would be at -2.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Making an off-hand attack requires a full round action; as does using rapid shot. A full round action is being made. So can you use both or just one or..?

No, there's an important distinction you're missing. They are not their own individual types of full-round action, they just both require using the full attack action. If you're taking the full attack action, you qualify to use an off-hand attack, and you also qualify to use rapid shot. If you did both, you'd have quite a penalty on all of your attacks, but I know of no rule that prevents trying it.

 

[two]

ooooh tricky

I like that.

So the Fighter1 with feats: quickdraw, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot could:

Be in melee range with an ork. Daggers in both hands. Full attack action. Main hand attack (1), off hand attack (2) 5' step back (allowed in the middle of a full attack action) then throw dagger (3).

3 attacks, no AOO. Lots of penalties. Actually. Would there be a ranged penalty? Beyond the -2 on all for rapid shot?

 

[Belares]

Fighter does a FULL ROUND ACTION. Throws dagger1, quick draws dagger 2. Using Rapid Shot, throws dagger2, then makes his 5' adjustment toward the Ork. Now in melee range, Fighter stabs ork with off-hand dagger.

Both are full attack actions and I see no where in the rules that allows 2 full attack actions other than haste that gives you a partial action.

you cannot get the off-hand weapon attack BECAUSE you didnt full attack with a melee weapon.

 

[Skaros]

Both are full attack actions and I see no where in the rules that allows 2 full attack actions other than haste that gives you a partial action.

you cannot get the off-hand weapon attack BECAUSE you didnt full attack with a melee weapon.

wanna quote a rule stating that you have to do all attacks as melee attacks to benefit from two weapon fighting? or that all attacks have to be ranged attacks to benefit from rapid shot?

Not saying I think conclusively that its possible, but I'd rather see some evidence to put the notion to bed than random declarations.

I take it noone disputes that a higher level fighter with 3 attacks per round could take a full attack action, throw two daggers (quick drawing them), and then melee attack someone in front of him, right?

So the thing to prove/disprove is whether you can mix melee and ranged attacks in various ways while using rapid shot or two weapon fighting.

Good luck,

Skaros

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Both are full attack actions and I see no where in the rules that allows 2 full attack actions other than haste that gives you a partial action.

Not true. And in fact I already pointed out that it's not true. Two-weapon fighting is a combat modifier that applies when you take a full attack action. Rapid Shot is a feat that you qualify to use when you take a full attack action. Neither is a separate type of action in its own right.

you cannot get the off-hand weapon attack BECAUSE you didnt full attack with a melee weapon.

Also not true. Whether you "full attacked with a melee weapon" is irrelevant. Two-weapon fighting contains no restriction whatsoever to melee weapons. You can use two-weapon fighting with ranged weapons if you want to.

 

[Belares]

Also not true. Whether you "full attacked with a melee weapon" is irrelevant. Two-weapon fighting contains no restriction whatsoever to melee weapons. You can use two-weapon fighting with ranged weapons if you want to.

I believe the rule states you can take a off-hand attack as a full attack action, If you use the full attack action when in melee not using ranged attacks. I have never seen anything that states you CAN make a ranged attack as a full attack action (using any feats that allows an extra attack) then take a 5' step and get a off-hand attack as well.

I am sure that you all think that may be true but think of it this way..can you use 2 short swords in melee and attack with one and then take a 5' step then make the off-hand attack? If you can i didnt know that you could attack then move and then attack again rule.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I am sure that you all think that may be true but think of it this way..can you use 2 short swords in melee and attack with one and then take a 5' step then make the off-hand attack?

You can take a 5' step before, during, or after a full round attack. So the answer is yes, you can.

 

[diaglo]

try this scenario. orc 1 is 5ft to your right, ergo you threaten. orc 2 is 5ft behind him.

feat: twf, ambidex with light weapons yadda yadda.

you don't get to full attack orc 1 take 5ft step and then full attack orc 2


also pg 100 under the crossbow. read about ranged weapons and such...

i thought about this with hand axes a few years ago. i think it may be still on Mortality.net