Gamma World Existentialism

Biohazard · Dec 15, 2003

The Ultimate Existential Question:

Is Arthaus' Gamma World a d20 Modern *campaign setting*

OR

a *game* designed to be compatible with d20 Modern?

[And if nobody buys it, does it matter?

]

Alchemist · Dec 15, 2003

I'm going to go with the first one, on virtue that d20M is the ruleset GWd20 was built off of rather than GWd20 being an entity designed under a different ruleset (such as 3.5D&D). That makes GWd20 a setting for d20M and compatible with 3.5.

As for whether it matters, that depends. It might matter to you if you bought it, unlike me. Darwin's World all the way baby!

Eynowd · Dec 15, 2003

Biohazard said:
The Ultimate Existential Question:

Is Arthaus' Gamma World a d20 Modern *campaign setting*

OR

a *game* designed to be compatible with d20 Modern?

[And if nobody buys it, does it matter? ]

The former. It's not our fault someone in the S&SS management/marketing decided to rename the book to the "Player's Handbook". It was never intended to be that either.

And people are buying and enjoying it.

cheers
Geoff (one of the GW PHB authors)

Krieg · Dec 15, 2003

Eynowd said:
And people are buying and enjoying it.

That is all well and good, but there's a heck of an awful lot of folks who aren't.

I purposely passed on Mutants & Machines because of my opinion of GW.

Eynowd · Dec 17, 2003

Krieg said:
That is all well and good, but there's a heck of an awful lot of folks who aren't.

I purposely passed on Mutants & Machines because of my opinion of GW.

I'm sorry to hear you were disappointed by it.

I'd suggest having at least a look at Mutants and Machines. It's been generating some good comments, even from people who didn't like the GW PHB.

It may not be to your liking, which is also perfectly fine. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

cheers
Geoff

King of Old School · Dec 17, 2003

Eynowd said:
It's not our fault someone in the S&SS management/marketing decided to rename the book to the "Player's Handbook". It was never intended to be that either.

Hi Geoff,

I'm wondering what the original intention of the development crew was regarding the breakdown of materials into 2 books -- IOW, if they weren't intended as a player's book and a GM's book then what were they intended as?

Cheers,
KoOS

Eynowd · Dec 18, 2003

King of Old School said:
Hi Geoff,

I'm wondering what the original intention of the development crew was regarding the breakdown of materials into 2 books -- IOW, if they weren't intended as a player's book and a GM's book then what were they intended as?

Well, the one thing I really suggest people do is let go of the D&D definitions of PHB & GMG. That way of thinking only leads to pain and anguish

Basically, when we started, the first book was designed as the core campaign setting book. We made no secret of the fact it needed to be used with D20 Modern (I find myself surprised at the number of people who are complaining they need to get D20M to use it, when Bruce and others said all along that was the case). It was designed to give everyone - players and GMs alike - an idea of what the new GW setting was like, and enough stuff to let them get a campaign off the ground before the additional material came out. That's why things like the community rules appear in the PHB.

The Game Master's Guide is essentially a collection of advice on how to run a GW campaign: different play styles, setting up challenges and alternate settings. As Bruce likes to say, the book is designed for GMs who like the game, but are having some trouble figuring out what to do with it. It's intended to help them out some. I have a laser printed copy of the manuscript at home, but I haven't finished reading through it yet. What I have read, I've liked.

It isn't like the D&D DMG though, so if people buy it expecting to get the PA equivalent, then they're going to be disappointed. It's much closer to the Storyteller's Handbook for the World of Darkness games.

Basically, the GW line follows the normal White Wolf way of structuring information, not the D&D way: the core book gives you enough stuff to get you started, and everything expands on it from there.

Hope that helps.

cheers
Geoff

Krieg · Dec 18, 2003

Eynowd said:
I'm sorry to hear you were disappointed by it.

I just hope that you aren't overly surprised by said disapoointment.

I'd suggest having at least a look at Mutants and Machines. It's been generating some good comments, even from people who didn't like the GW PHB.

I have taken a look at it. It is certainly better than the mess that is the GWPH. I was just so taken aback by how haphazard the original product was that I have no desire to pump any more money into the line.

I'm a firm believer in "voting by credit card" as it were.

It may not be to your liking, which is also perfectly fine. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

...and as the old saying goes:

"Everyone has one and they all..."

For me the real shame is that there is actually IS some gold to be found within the GW book, it's just far too much work to sift through the dross to uncover it. Ironically enough I would probably be less critical if the book were completely without value.

BTW who picked the background image (concrete?!) & the font for the background stories at the beginning of each chapter? Just for future reference, being able to actually read the book would be a huge step in the right direction.

Krieg · Dec 18, 2003

Click.

King of Old School · Dec 18, 2003

Eynowd said:
It isn't like the D&D DMG though, so if people buy it expecting to get the PA equivalent, then they're going to be disappointed. It's much closer to the Storyteller's Handbook for the World of Darkness games.

Basically, the GW line follows the normal White Wolf way of structuring information, not the D&D way: the core book gives you enough stuff to get you started, and everything expands on it from there.

Thanks Geoff, that's more than helpful. I'm more familiar with WW product than D&D stuff, so this makes perfect sense to me and addresses some of the concerns I had.

I do think though, that you have a legitimate beef with whoever in S&S decided to label the books and not with customers. It's perfectly reasonable for the GW audience -- which will be primarily from the D&D side of the fence rather than the WW/WoD camp -- to assume that books labelled "Player's Handbook" and "Game Master's Guide" are intended for players and GMs, respectively. This stuff isn't being published in a vacuum. Marketers suck (says the guy who works with marketers...).

KoOS