General star wars talk/discussion/complaining

[ART!]

Those are some really interesting numbers! What stands out to me is that folks 30-61 love Andor, which takes a more serious, "adult" look at the late Imperial era of the original trilogy - the movies they grew up with, for the most part. Older than that, folks like The Mandalorian's throw-back, western feel - a genre they grew up with. My kids are Gen Z, and I'm not surprised to see that generation's most-watched is the Clone Wars series. Knowing people that age because of my kids, that show was foundational to their understanding of Star Wars. And - like Andor - it's a longer, deeper look at the characters and forces at work from the movies.

 

[Reynard]

Star Wars is at its best when it takes itself seriously. I don't mean that only "Andor" is good Star Wars. I mean that the characters and stories embrace Star Wars tropes and style without irony. The best example is Clone Wars and Empire -- both of which still have their silly moments.

Star Wars is bad when its characters and scenes actively mock qhat Star Wars is. This is where The Last Jedi really fails, with scenes like Luke tossing away the lightsaber and the "duel" at the end.

 

[Gradine]

New Star Wars streaming report reveals a huge problem facing the franchise

New data reveals some troubling trends in a galaxy far away

www.polygon.com

So, I'm not one of these people who wants to say that Disney ruined Star Wars -- Rogue One, Andor, Rise of the Resistance and some other stuff sure seem like the opposite of "ruining" to me.

To say nothing of plenty of the other good-to-excellent stuff they've been putting out (also though it's impossible to understate just how awesome Rise of the Resistance is!).

The thing is, to someone who is a pure Star Wars fan (and I count myself among them!) even bad Star Wars is still freaking Star Wars!

But you can't get people having nostalgia for the sequel trilogy in a few decades, the way that millennials have (incorrectly) decided that "the prequel trilogy was good, actually" if kids aren't watching the sequel trilogy. Rise of Skywalker, in particular, just saying "OK, fine, let's just throw red meat at our most hardcore, long-term fans, don't worry about any of this being incoherent" was a huge error.

First off, #notallmillennials*. Second, the big difference is that when the prequels came out, pretty much everyone said they were bad, whereas the general consensus is a lot more positive on at least episodes 7 and 8. Which kind of makes it the opposite of the prequel trilogy (in that people said Ep 3 was actually pretty good even when it came out, but then they were still wrong, so...)

*To be fair, I grew up with the Ewok movies; as long as I don't watch them as an adult I can still pretend that they aren't terrible movies!

I generally don't even have a problem with JJ Abrams. But I think Rise of Skywalker is a big, big problem for the franchise going forward. Disney is going to have to stick the landing with one or both of their next two theatrical films if they hope to get out of this tailspin.

I will say that Mando & Grogu being their return to the big screen seems like a pretty significant misplay; it might have worked out a few years ago but "Baby Yoda" fever has sort of come and gone at this point

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Star Wars is bad when its characters and scenes actively mock qhat Star Wars is. This is where The Last Jedi really fails, with scenes like Luke tossing away the lightsaber and the "duel" at the end.

Strong disagree that TLJ mocks Star Wars. Its core argument is that following tradition for tradition's sake doesn't solve anything (in part because of those war profiteers living it up while the galaxy tears itself apart again).

"Let the past die; kill it if you have to."

A different Episode IX, showing us Emperor Kylo Ren and a Resistance small enough to fit into the Millennium Falcon could have stuck the landing. But Disney got cold feet about doing something new (they spent half a billion on doing a post-prequels reset to classic Star Wars tropes with TFA, so something wildly different wasn't something they were likely to be down for) and JJ Abrams threw a temper tantrum, and here we are.

Broom Boy should have been the signature image of a new era for Star Wars, a post-Jedi/Sith, post-Empire/Rebellion binary, but instead we just got a car crash.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

*To be fair, I grew up with the Ewok movies; as long as I don't watch them as an adult I can still pretend that they aren't terrible movies!

There's been a sideline of kid-friendly Star Wars stuff since the beginning. I think the problem is when the rights-owners try to turn the mainstream films into that, rather than keeping them as an adjunct.

Which is to say, the Ewok movies are fine, just like Droids was fine and the IDW kids Star Wars comics are fine, etc.

We just don't need any more main films making us care about elementary-age protagonists podracing. That would have been a good thing to stick into a kid-friendly animated series that came out to support a more adult Episode 1.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Those are some really interesting numbers! What stands out to me is that folks 30-61 love Andor, which takes a more serious, "adult" look at the late Imperial era of the original trilogy - the movies they grew up with, for the most part. Older than that, folks like The Mandalorian's throw-back, western feel - a genre they grew up with. My kids are Gen Z, and I'm not surprised to see that generation's most-watched is the Clone Wars series. Knowing people that age because of my kids, that show was foundational to their understanding of Star Wars. And - like Andor - it's a longer, deeper look at the characters and forces at work from the movies.

The trouble, of course, is that the older audience is endlessly declining. A decline that can only accelerate. To sustain a franchise it needs to constantly bring in new fans. And, especially with something like Star Wars, you need to grab them whilst they are young. For all its faults, the Phantom Menace recognised that. The stinkyness of of Rise of Skywalker in particular lost a generation of potential fans. This movie looks like it’s intended to appeal to a younger audience, but it has to get them into the cinema in the first place. It’s basically in a worse position than the original film, which at least had novelty to get people to the cinema to get word of mouth started. Its only hope is to be very very good.

 

[payn]

Star Wars is at its best when it takes itself seriously. I don't mean that only "Andor" is good Star Wars. I mean that the characters and stories embrace Star Wars tropes and style without irony. The best example is Clone Wars and Empire -- both of which still have their silly moments.

Star Wars is bad when its characters and scenes actively mock qhat Star Wars is. This is where The Last Jedi really fails, with scenes like Luke tossing away the lightsaber and the "duel" at the end.

I wont say TLJ is good (it isnt) but that final duel was dope AF. It felt SW to me, which most of the film didnt.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Its only hope is to be very very good.

Or to not be so bad that it hurts ticket sales for Starfighter.

 

[Zardnaar]

I wont say TLJ is good (it isnt) but that final duel was dope AF. It felt SW to me, which most of the film didnt.

All the ST movies looked beautiful snd had some good duels in it.

Other than that we have a rehash and two more movies barely connected to the rehash.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Or to not be so bad that it hurts ticket sales for Starfighter.

Starfighter has even less appeal than cute Grogu. It won’t be enough for M&G to be just ok and hope Gosling brings people in - because big name stars mean nothing to the 10 year old kids that the franchise desperately needs.