Getting physical

[Mercule]

You could, for example have a system that allowed you to use your athletics skill 3 times per day instead of +12.

:shudder: I think our tastes diverge on more than just athletics. I've ranted a couple of times on my hatred for the x/day mechanic. It's one of the few artifacts from 3E I'd like to see stripped.

Do you think published modules caters to your preferences? Are there enough roof-top chases?

I wouldn't say "cater", but there seem to be enough opportunities to use athletic skills, if you're looking for them. Playing a Thief-Acrobat in Return to Temple of Elemental Evil was fine in that regard. My tastes would still see more of that sort of thing, but I never felt starved for it.

A note: I generally GM and use homebrew adventures/settings. That means I may not be the best judge of published product in this area.

 

[Frostmarrow]

:shudder: I think our tastes diverge on more than just athletics. I've ranted a couple of times on my hatred for the x/day mechanic. It's one of the few artifacts from 3E I'd like to see stripped.

That was just an example. There must be other ways to work it.

I'm all for action of a swashbuckling kind I just don't see RPGs doing it very well. It's interesting to learn that you find they do. I'm trying to understand what I don't get, so to speak. I guess feats like Acrobatic and Skill Focus are important to you. Building the character is half the fun?

I've run RtTToEE myself and apart from tumbling in combat I can't quite remember many opportunities for physical maneuvering, but I'll take your word for it. My players were heavily armored...

Maybe I just hate failing checks?

 

[eris404]

But let me ask you: Is rolling checks all that exciting? What would you rather experience in one evening of your favorite RPG:

1. A gruelling melee
2. A grand negotiation
3. A great competition

You know, it's all about how it's played. Although I tend to be story and role-playing focused, I've been in role-playing sessions that bored me to tears and I've also been in long combats where I held my breath every time someone made a roll.

One session not too long ago, I did run a roof top chase. I didn't do it very well in retrospect (it was very much a spontaneous thing and I think I could have made it better with a little planning), but it was still very exciting and fun to play out. The Dungeon adventure called "The Mad God's Key" also features a chase across boats tied up at the docks of a city and each boat has a potential encounter (a small trap, hinderances, distractions, etc) that makes the chase more than just rolling to see if a character makes the next jump. I think the trick is to incorporate these kinds of skill checks into other encounters and that makes them more interesting and fun.

 

[kenobi65]

You see, for me it's not exciting at all to roll dice, cross reference my character sheet and a table in a rule book to learn that my jump I just made was 12".

I wouldn't be that excited to learn that my PC had just jumped twelve inches, either. I think I've seen this scene before, in "Spinal Tap"...

Ian Faith: Nigel gave me a drawing that said 18 inches. Now, whether or not he knows the difference between feet and inches is not my problem. I do what I'm told.
David St. Hubbins: But you're not as confused as him are you. I mean, it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I wouldn't be that excited to learn that my PC had just jumped twelve inches, either. I think I've seen this scene before, in "Spinal Tap"...

You can imagine my disappointment.

 

[Frostmarrow]

You know, it's all about how it's played. Although I tend to be story and role-playing focused, I've been in role-playing sessions that bored me to tears and I've also been in long combats where I held my breath every time someone made a roll.

One session not too long ago, I did run a roof top chase. I didn't do it very well in retrospect (it was very much a spontaneous thing and I think I could have made it better with a little planning), but it was still very exciting and fun to play out. The Dungeon adventure called "The Mad God's Key" also features a chase across boats tied up at the docks of a city and each boat has a potential encounter (a small trap, hinderances, distractions, etc) that makes the chase more than just rolling to see if a character makes the next jump. I think the trick is to incorporate these kinds of skill checks into other encounters and that makes them more interesting and fun.

In a short Freeport adventure there is a chase scene across roof tops to stop a thief. I'm afraid we killed the prey with missile weapons since we kept falling off. :\

But, alright, a great chase requires a lot of preparation. -Let's just hope the players take the bait then.

There are formulas for chases in some other d20 games (Spycraft leaps to mind). Has anyone tried those?

 

[Mercule]

That was just an example. There must be other ways to work it.

So long as it doesn't limit the number of times per day I can do something. Either my PC knows it or not. Oh, and I like a chance for failure on most things.

I'm all for action of a swashbuckling kind I just don't see RPGs doing it very well. It's interesting to learn that you find they do. I'm trying to understand what I don't get, so to speak. I guess feats like Acrobatic and Skill Focus are important to you. Building the character is half the fun?

Yeah. I took Run, Dash, and at least one other that everyone looked at me oddly for -- it's been a couple of years, though, so I'd have to grab the sheet to be too detailed.

I've run RtTToEE myself and apart from tumbling in combat I can't quite remember many opportunities for physical maneuvering, but I'll take your word for it. My players were heavily armored...

We spent levels 1-4 in Greyhawk, which has ample opportunity for acrobatics. Even after that, though, there were quite a few places where having a Thief-Acrobat and a Duelist radically changed our approach to things. Tumble checks were about as common as attack rolls. The

Spoiler

manticore cavern

played a bit different and my character and the character I saved were the only two to survive the

Spoiler

sea hag

. Plus, there were an assortment of balconies, chasms, etc. that were much, much easier to get to -- there were a couple times where we had the semi-comical experience of me carting the bard or wizard on my back to jump across a pit, since I was strong enough to jump encumbered better than they could jump naked.

Maybe I just hate failing checks?

Possibly. Meanwhile, I don't mind it at all -- I'd prefer a die roll than a binary option.

It's also possible that your group of players/GMs does not think in terms of using athletic skills. I think only a couple in my group do. On the other hand, I find it difficult to think in spellcaster terms.

 

[Frostmarrow]

So long as it doesn't limit the number of times per day I can do something. Either my PC knows it or not. Oh, and I like a chance for failure on most things.

Okay, I've slept on it and I came up with this:

When it comes to actions the player states his wishes. E.g. "I like to jump from this window to the other window right next to it". The character is standing in a window opening 30' above ground and 5' to the left on the wall there is another window.

The GM decides that this is a risky maneuver. He rolls a die with pretty minute odds of failure. Say 1 on a d10. If the GM rolls 2+ things go as planned and the character ends up in the next window. If the GM rolls 1 something has gone wrong. The player must make a reflex/dexterity-save or plummet. If the player makes the save the GM decides that the character has saved himself from falling and is now hanging by the fingetips.

Let's say a party of four characters is standing on one side of a chasm and they all at the same time leap the chasm to the other side. The GM rolls 4d10s, one for each character and any that comes up 1 requires a strenght-save. Otherwise everything goes as planned.

So what's the point, you might ask. Well, for one thing the GM is in full control yet there is a risk of failure, albeit a small one. This is not suited to olympic games, I know but it might work in a swashbuckly game.

I suppose the risk always need to be the same number (i.e 1) - either it's risky or it's not. The character's save already takes skill into account. Modifications alway bog down play.