Goblin in a barrel + Trigger?

[scottchiefbaker]

We're playing thunderspire labyrinth and there was a goblin hiding inside of a barrel. On his turn the goblin would pop up and shoot his ranged weapon at us and then drop back into the barrel as cover.

Since the barrels required a strength check of 20 to smash my response was to ready Magic Missile and trigger when the Goblin Stood up I'd shoot at it. My DM was saying that you can't use a readied action to interrupt an attack only a movement and technically the goblin wasn't moving.

My question is, how does a readied action work in regards to a situation like this. Can I:

#1) Ready an action for when I see an enemy step around a corner?
#2) Ready an action for when an enemy attacks an ally?
#3) Ready an action for when an enemy moves through a certain square, but ends in a different square?
#4) Ready an action for when an enemy attempts to move and hide behind his buddy?

When does the readied action fire? As soon as the trigger condition occurs, or after the trigger condition occurs?

 

[Larrin]

It is, of course, up to the DM.

However: Unless he's using a power that specifies he can 'pop up' as part of the attack, i don't think you can claim that action is part of the attack.

Popping up could easily be seen as standing from prone, thus a move action. Your readied action would thus trigger quite clearly.

Me, i'd have the heaviest player character sit on the lid. Or stand right next to it, so the ranged attack provoked OA's

As for you numbered questions, hopefully someone else has the answers....

 

[Ryujin]

Presumably the goblin was standing from prone, as there is no other mechanic I can think of to cover what he was doing; move (stand), shoot (standard), and drop prone (minor). This means you were triggering your action on the move action of 'stand', which is perfectly legal. You weren't 'interrupting' the attack. You were reacting to the 'move.'

In short, your DM was wrong.

 

[Saeviomagy]

We're playing thunderspire labyrinth and there was a goblin hiding inside of a barrel. On his turn the goblin would pop up and shoot his ranged weapon at us and then drop back into the barrel as cover.

Since the barrels required a strength check of 20 to smash my response was to ready Magic Missile and trigger when the Goblin Stood up I'd shoot at it. My DM was saying that you can't use a readied action to interrupt an attack only a movement and technically the goblin wasn't moving.

My question is, how does a readied action work in regards to a situation like this. Can I:

#1) Ready an action for when I see an enemy step around a corner?
#2) Ready an action for when an enemy attacks an ally?
#3) Ready an action for when an enemy moves through a certain square, but ends in a different square?
#4) Ready an action for when an enemy attempts to move and hide behind his buddy?

When does the readied action fire? As soon as the trigger condition occurs, or after the trigger condition occurs?

You can ready for any condition, and your readied action takes place after the trigger occurs.

The goblin has to take an action to pop up. Technically the only rule he could be using is drop prone (free)/stand up (move action).

Therefore you can ready for when he stands up, and your readied action will take place after he stands up.

Oh, and if the DM denies you this, buy a barrel and some suspenders.

 

[DracoSuave]

Or the barrel is a terrain feature that has some special rule that says that you can switch from using the barrel as cover or not with a minor action.

But hey, goblin in a barrel? Scorching Burst. Why ready an action?

But it depends on how the terrain feature works. If it provides cover for someone in the terrain but not those outside it, and the flavor is popping up and down, then you couldn't interrupt that with a readied action.

If it's just a variant of obscuring terrain, then as well, goblin doesn't actually need to do anything, it's just flavor.

 

[scottchiefbaker]

How does a burst attack work in a situation like that?

There was another situation where something had cover hiding under a table and we didn't know where it was. Can I do a scorching burst next to the table and hit all the squares underneath it and hit the goblin? What are the rules on that?

 

[ValhallaGH]

How does a burst attack work in a situation like that?

There was another situation where something had cover hiding under a table and we didn't know where it was. Can I do a scorching burst next to the table and hit all the squares underneath it and hit the goblin? What are the rules on that?

You can, and it would. However, the goblin in this example would have cover and / or concealment, and the concealment might be total if you actually don't know he's under the table.

 

[MarkB]

The DM is wrong about readying being able to trigger only on movement. A specific example given in the PHB is Readying in response to a goblin's attack.

As an Immediate Reaction, the attack would take place after the goblin makes its attack, but before it takes its minor action to drop prone.

How does a burst attack work in a situation like that?

There was another situation where something had cover hiding under a table and we didn't know where it was. Can I do a scorching burst next to the table and hit all the squares underneath it and hit the goblin? What are the rules on that?

Burst and Blast attacks ignore attack penalties due to concealment (including total concealment), and they determine cover in relation to the attack's origin square, which in the case of area bursts will differ from the attacker's own square. There's a neat diagram on page 281 of the PHB showing cover in relation to an area burst.

 

[Artoomis]

Oh, for goodness' sake! This sort of thing is exactly what Readied Actions are designed to do.

Obviously, the popup is some sort of action - even if the DM rules it a free action because of monster or barrel design, it's still an action that can be used as a trigger for a Readied Action.

It's a shame to not allow it since this is just the sort of situation where it should be allowed.

 

[Nifft]

You can, and it would. However, the goblin in this example would have cover and / or concealment, and the concealment might be total if you actually don't know he's under the table.

Melee Attacks and Ranged Attacks Only: Attack penalties from concealment apply only to the targets of melee or ranged attacks.

Area and Close attacks ignore concealment. Guess the square, fry the foe.

Cheers, -- N