Greyhawk: Crown of the Witch Queen

Greyhawk: Crown of the Witch Queen announced as 2027 adventure

Has one, two or three high level NPCs isn't the same thing that say it's regular to find high level NPCs, even the "reired fighter bartender" isn't so common. The Village of Hommlet itself, almost everyone of the regular NPCs are level 0, only 10 has any level, and only three has level above 4.

Agains the Cult of the Reptilian God has this description of regular citizen of the village of Orlane:
"Citizens are generally neutral good, AC 10, and level 0."

Has some High Level NPCs in position of power isn't the same thing as say that the regular NPC in a adventure or setting is a hig level NPC
"Everyone is 0 level" is standard in Forgotten Realms too, btw. It's just the FR just has SO MUCH MORE STUFF. There are mountains of NPC's, so, you have this idea that there are all these powerful NPC's around every corner. It's more a perception than a reality.
 

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Oh sure. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that it couldn't. But, that being said, if I wanted to do Epic Fantasy I wouldn't use Greyhawk. The sweeping scale of Epic Fantasy, cast of thousands, fate of the world, grand stories are better suited to FR. You expect FR characters to hob nob (after a few levels anyway) with the great and good of the setting. In Tyranny of Dragons, for example, the PC's are sitting at the table with the most powerful leaders in the Sword Coast.

This isn't what I would expect in a Greyhawk campaign. Number one, if you set a table for ten of the most influential leaders in GH, probably two or three of them wouldn't survive the meal. :D Someone's getting stabbed, poisoned, or otherwise harmed. Trying to get them to work together would be a Herculean task and it's just not something I would expect to see in a GH campaign. That's why I see GH as a much more S&S setting. FR leaders work together because most of the faction leaders are good or at least leaning that way.

That's the difference. GH is a far darker setting where everyone is out for themselves. Virtually no one is actually "good". States are just as likely to venerate a demon lord as they are fight one.
Agreed. The closest leader in GH to someone like Lord Neverember was Prince Thrommel, and we know how that ended up. Even so, playing the Battle of Emridy Meadows you can tell he's mostly doing things for the glory, not for altruistic reasons.

This is why I'm excited for the new book: we get a "new" villain that's not Iuz or
the Elemental Eye
, and we get something that continues from the DMG Gazetteer, which has been left untouched. Sure LoG exists, but it's canonicity hasn't been confirmed by WotC yet
 

I think some difficulty with S&S is how highly individualistic protagonist motivations are. Galvanized party causes are possible, but feels more like herding cats
Speaking of Ator, The Fighting Eagle, with its S&S hilarity. There's an example of the kind of personalized story common in S&S that can make it a little more difficult to galvanize in a party format. The antagonist makes a personal affront to Ator, stealing his sister wife and baby napping him to some day throw him at a rival and all that. It is usually so much more personal vendetta with those baddies... instead of we Avenger-meet at a tavern to slay some generic global threat guy. That personal motivation for the protagonist is a very big thing in S&S. Conan's usually starts with needing gold to feed his bombastic hedonistic urges. Other times its paying a dept. Other times it is dealing with troubles with the law
 

The analogy to Avengers is spot on IMO. FR is very much an Avengers style story. Not that that's a bad thing at all. I love me some Avengers. But, these are big, sprawling plots that affect the whole planet. X-Men typically fall into this same vein. Compare to something like Heroes for Hire or Daredevil. Greyhawk, again, and this is purely my own head canon and opinion, suits that style of campaign much better. Greyhawk characters aren't really supposed to fight Thanatos for the Fate of the Universe. At least, not very often. :D It's much more local. Look at the iconic AD&D GH modules - Slave Lords, GDQ, the S series. None of those feature grand, sprawling plots. If the party doesn't go to Barrier Peaks, nothing really changes in the world. Even in the old U series, if the heroes do nothing, all that really happens is a fairly small town is destroyed.

Which is a bad thing, but, on the grand scheme of things, isn't really going to have much of a world spanning impact.
 

Agreed. The closest leader in GH to someone like Lord Neverember was Prince Thrommel, and we know how that ended up. Even so, playing the Battle of Emridy Meadows you can tell he's mostly doing things for the glory, not for altruistic reasons.
Eh, there's also the leaders of the Shield Lands and the Iron League, and well, there's the general alignment of various countries:

1785910183045.png
 




Speaking of Ator, The Fighting Eagle, with its S&S hilarity. There's an example of the kind of personalized story common in S&S that can make it a little more difficult to galvanize in a party format. The antagonist makes a personal affront to Ator, stealing his sister wife and baby napping him to some day throw him at a rival and all that. It is usually so much more personal vendetta with those baddies... instead of we Avenger-meet at a tavern to slay some generic global threat guy. That personal motivation for the protagonist is a very big thing in S&S. Conan's usually starts with needing gold to feed his bombastic hedonistic urges. Other times its paying a dept. Other times it is dealing with troubles with the law
Yeah, this screams "Sword and Sorcery" to me.


EDIT: Also, just how much O'Keefe is in that movie anyway?
 


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