D&D (2024) Greyhawk Grognard covers the Greyhawk section of the DMG

Voadam

Legend
Whelp, there are several named Dragons in this Greyhawk, aside from Ashardalon in the Lore Glossary:

  • Morley, an Adult Copper Dragpn present ding to be an eccentric wizard running the magic shop Unearthed Arcana in the Clerkberg district of Greyhawk
  • Mayor Talisyr of High Folk, disguised Adult Silver Drafon
  • Mayor Unthera Selvich of Irongate, actually an Adult Bronze Dragon
  • Father of Obedience, Korenth Zan of the Hidden Empire shaShar and the Scarlet Orde, implied to be a Red Dragon
They also suggest a Kaiju attack of Tiamat rising from the Nyr Dyv, which is amazing
That does seem another change. 1e Greyhawk was fairly sparse on dragons.

2e Greyhawk did have hidden Greyhawk dragons though, even named ones as plot NPCs in the falcon modules.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
I chalk it up to a mistake. As you said, it makes basically no difference, that also means there is not really a reason for the change.

Add to this that WotC also did not mention anything in the book or their videos, and there seems to be no reason for the change.

Maybe some future GH time-travel adventure will shed some light on it, until then I consider it a mistake
Nah, that's the thing...they went too into detail for it to ne a mistake. This isn't a transcription error, it was a conscious choice.

One possibility is thet anything that makes it into the books at this point requires approval by two independent sensitivity readers, which I am fine with personally. But if the sensitivity readers saw an issue and said "change this"...they wouldn't highlight that in marketing material, at all.

I don't know why the sensitivity readers would prefer the Baklunish to have started the final apocalyptic exchange, but that seems the most likely explanation.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
That does seem another change. 1e Greyhawk was fairly sparse on dragons.

2e Greyhawk did have hidden Greyhawk dragons though, even named ones as plot NPCs in the falcon modules.
That stuff is all in the MM, though, and Greyhawk was and is default D&D, so...it fits.
 



billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍⚧️
So fantasy Arabs are now the aggressors in the past nuclear war?

That is a surprising change.
Being the first to invoke mutually assured destruction doesn’t necessarily make them the aggressors in a war. The new Greyhawk material makes it clear that the twin cataclysms end the war and we don’t really know what the state of things were when the nuclear options were deployed. Whomever launched first may have been resorting to it as a last ditch effort, not as the primary aggressor. There isn’t enough information to infer they’re the aggressors
 

Hussar

Legend
Reminder folks, it's an Elf Game.
You can really tell people who rarely ever play in public or with strangers.

Look, it's not hard to see why these changes get made. There is a significant number of players who play in somewhere like a lunchroom at a middle school. Grade 7 or grade 8 players. Now, imagine you have a group of players having their game and the DM, being a 12 year old, is describing the local slave population and the local slave owners in terms that might be ... less than sensitive. Teacher walks by, or a couple of other kids walk by and hear all of this and totally misunderstand what's going on.

Next thing you know, it's banning books from school as this turns viral and it's another Satanic Panic all over again.

Now, you're the publisher of the game. Do you, A. Continue to put this stuff in the game, knowing that it's a time bomb that will inevitably blow up in your face or B. Take it out of the game and allow individual tables to set the tone of their own games as appropriate for the location?

I dunno about anyone else, but, I know which one I'd choose.
 


Hussar

Legend
Oh absolutely. That said, if one finds themselves assigning fantasy nationalities in a fantasy world, to real life peoples?

Elf Game, not real.
Yes, well, that's great and all. But, since you have no actual skin in the game, and refuse to accept why this stuff can be a problem for groups, perhaps your input isn't quite as useful as you think it is.

This has been discussed AT LENGTH on these boards. There are various places to get educated about why thinly veiled allusions to real world groups is a problem in fantasy and has been for the better part of a century. But, hey, since we can pretend to hide behind "it's an elf game, not real" it's all good right?
 


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