[Grim Tales] Mass Combat Questions

[Hakez]

Having just purchased and read the Grim Tales Mass Combat supplement, I'd first like to say Thank You for saving me writing up my own.

I've run across a couple questions:

Formations: I infer there are 5 valid formations: Close, Open, Tight, Dispersed and Phalanx. What is not clear is when they are valid, and what the pros and cons of each is.

The term 'Enemy Unit Modifier' comes up in the Heroic Charge section. What does this term mean? BR of enemy unit? Enemy Unit Size Modifier (table F-2)?

Thank you!
Hakez

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Formations: I infer there are 5 valid formations: Close, Open, Tight, Dispersed and Phalanx. What is not clear is when they are valid, and what the pros and cons of each is.

Let's reorder them from tightest to loosest:

Tight, Close, Open, and Dispersed.

Tight is only available to units with the "Phalanx" special Tactical Ability, and Dispersed is only available to "Skirmishers."

The effects of formation are scattered listed in each section where they are relevant. For example, under Movement:

A unit in dispersed formation may move in any direction up to
the limit of its movement. Units in dispersed formation do not
have a facing.

A unit in open formation may move forward in a straight line
only, but may make one turn of up to 90 degrees (or one hex
face) at any point in its movement.

A unit in close formation may move forward in a straight line
only.

A unit in tight formation may move in a straight line only, and
only at half speed.
​

... And, for example, under Attack:

A unit gains a +1 bonus to this Battle check if the opponent
is in open formation, as the attacker is able to bring more
combatants to bear against the defenders.
​

In retrospect a single table listing all of the modifiers for formations would have been useful.

The term 'Enemy Unit Modifier' comes up in the Heroic Charge section. What does this term mean? BR of enemy unit? Enemy Unit Size Modifier (table F-2)?

Enemy Unit Size Modifier.

Wulf

 

[Old One]

Wulf,

Any chance of getting the glitch in the GTMC spreadsheet ironed out? It is a bit of pain to back all the way out of the program or each new unit...but I love what it does for me!

~ Old One

 

[Old One]

Wulf is da Man!

Thanks for the rapid fix...now I can craft legions for my upcoming NC Game Day Grim Tales/Black Company Hybrid extravaganza!

~ OO

 

[Hakez]

Let's reorder them from tightest to loosest:

Tight, Close, Open, and Dispersed.

Enemy Unit Size Modifier.

Wulf

A gracious "Thank You" for your rapid response!

Hak

 

[Drew]

I just downloaded it last night, and I'm looking forward to testing it out. I previously purchased the PDF version of Cry Havoc!, but found it clunky. The fact that the Grim Tales system is only about 11 pages bodes well that it will be what I'm looking for. At a mere $2 download...its a great bargin either way.

I do have a couple questions. The Battle Rating system is based on the varient CR / EL rules from Grim Tales, right? I own Grim Tales, but I'm not overly familier with this system. Do I need to recalculate the CRs for troops before I calculate BRs, or can I just use the standard CR ratings from the MM / DMG?

Also, in the PDF version that I have, under Battles Without Maps it lists the manuevers: Attack, Charge, Maneuver, Retreat, and Withdraw. From what I can tell, only the Attack, Charge, and Maneuver rules seem to be about Battling without a Battle Map. Retreat and Withdraw are intended to be used regardless of whether you're using a Battle Map or not, right?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I do have a couple questions. The Battle Rating system is based on the varient CR / EL rules from Grim Tales, right? I own Grim Tales, but I'm not overly familier with this system. Do I need to recalculate the CRs for troops before I calculate BRs, or can I just use the standard CR ratings from the MM / DMG?

CR is the same in both GT and MM. You can use the normal CRs, just plug them right into the spreadsheet.

I --ahem-- really recommend picking up the Gamemastering PDF as well, as it will help you not only in general, but also in understanding some of the underlying principles to the GT EL system. (I hate to pimp another sale, but if you thought the Mass Combat was good at $2, you should be happy with the Gamemastering PDF.)

Also, in the PDF version that I have, under Battles Without Maps it lists the manuevers: Attack, Charge, Maneuver, Retreat, and Withdraw. From what I can tell, only the Attack, Charge, and Maneuver rules seem to be about Battling without a Battle Map. Retreat and Withdraw are intended to be used regardless of whether you're using a Battle Map or not, right?

I don't have it in front of me-- but I seem to recall that only a couple of maneuvers required rewriting for battles without maps. So all of the above maneuvers can be used, just that some of them work the same as they work with maps, but some are a little different.

If you want to Retreat or Withdraw and you're using a map, just move off the map edge.

(I think that's how I wrote it...)

Sorry that last answer was pretty feeble.

Wulf

 

[Drew]

Your answers make sense. Thank you for the quick reply.

I may have more questions after I playtest the combat system (which I'll hopefully be able to do today or this weekend.) Is the GameMastering PDF an excert from Grim Tales? If it is, I already own Grim Tales. If not...well, then, I regret not buying it. RPGNow requires a minimum of $6 before they process an order. I considered the GameMastering PDF to help complete my purchase but ultimately rejected it because, as far as I could tell, it was information I already own.

On a related note, if the CR ratings from Grim Tales are the same as the MM...is it the EL system that's different? I'll have to take a closer look at my book when I get home. I assumed the entire CR / EL system was different.

 

[Old One]

Another question (or two)...

Wulf,

Q1: The tactical level (with battlemat) seems to call for some manner of bonus for flank/rear attack against those in formation (skirmishers would be exempt, since they have no facing - and already suffer penalties against formed troops).

1) Was something supposed to be included on this?

2) If not...suggestions?

Q2: Under the morale rules, units don't start suffering penalties until they are down 50%. Although the rules don't include anything on training (subsumed in CR, for simplicity, I imagine), you could have a unit of 1-2 level warriors that are very well-trained/drilled and superior to a unit of militia of equal size. What would the impact be of dropping a level or three of training and making poorer trained units more brittle (green units might start suffering morale issues when they have lost 25% of their BR. Likewise, would a reasonable heroic action be to rally a disintegrating unit or are the BRs so beaten down by the time most units cracks that it wouldn't make sense.

~ OO

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wulf,

Q1: The tactical level (with battlemat) seems to call for some manner of bonus for flank/rear attack against those in formation (skirmishers would be exempt, since they have no facing - and already suffer penalties against formed troops).

Not as I recall.

Two reasons not to do this.

1- A +2 bonus in this system is equivalent to bringing twice as many combatants to bear. You could drop it down to a +1 bonus, but that's still significant.

2- The troops at the "rear" of a unit aren't really flanked, on an individual level, by the troops on the other side of the unit.

2) If not...suggestions?

Two suggestions. The first one would be to just give a +1 bonus. The second suggestion would be to have an attack against the rear of the unit automatically force a Morale check. I like option #2 better.

Q2: Under the morale rules, units don't start suffering penalties until they are down 50%. Although the rules don't include anything on training (subsumed in CR, for simplicity, I imagine), you could have a unit of 1-2 level warriors that are very well-trained/drilled and superior to a unit of militia of equal size. What would the impact be of dropping a level or three of training and making poorer trained units more brittle (green units might start suffering morale issues when they have lost 25% of their BR.

I believe you can handle that one yourself.

Likewise, would a reasonable heroic action be to rally a disintegrating unit or are the BRs so beaten down by the time most units cracks that it wouldn't make sense.

Seems reasonable to me, and a nice addition for charismatic heroes. Just keep in mind that a hero with a unit is already improving their Morale by making it easier for them to make the check in the first place.

Most of the Heroic Actions require some trade-off from the hero. It's hard to say what the trade-off might be in this case, but let's see... Maybe spend an action point and make a Command check, and if the check succeeds, the unit's Morale improves by one step. (That solution is no help to non-action point campaigners, however...)

Wulf