OD&D Gygax and the DMG: What is a Dungeon Master For?

[Gus L]

The problem is that at no point does it actually tell the reader that the Wilderness encounter section assume its only the true wild, nor does it tell you what to do if your starting location was, say, on the fringe of settlement and had true wilderness at one edge but at least semi-settled areas on the other. The Wilderness encounters were going to be bizarre failures for the latter, but there was no discussion of what you should do instead.

For sure ... but then it doesn't tell you how to decide who goes first in the alternate combat system either ... there are plenty of gaps. I find it some3what forgivable in wilderness adventuring, if only because of the (awful) suggestion to use wilderness survival. The part that annoys me though about OD&Ds treatment of wilderness adventure is how the later editions grow from it and have never to my knowledge offered a system that feels like wilderness travel ... something with decent weather rules etc.

 

[CandyLaser]

That's more how one could interpret their ad campaigns.

Do you have examples? I genuinely haven't seen them, but it wouldn't be the first time WotC has launched an ill-conceived ad campaign.

 

[Xenolith234]

Do you have examples? I genuinely haven't seen them, but it wouldn't be the first time WotC has launched an ill-conceived ad campaign.

I don’t recall the specific video, but one of the designers put it in one of the initial videos talking about 5.5.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Oh c'mon! XD we are literally talking about a game that discovered an entire type of tabletop games, and that was produced on some typewriters and a total budget of a couple thousands of dollars. I'm not saying it's the perfect game but you have to keep the context in mind. And to be completely fair, I really do think this particular quibble is not of much substance (especially compared to some other idiosyncrasies of OD&D), after all do you really need a rulebook to tell you you aren't randomly stumbling on a group of dragons in some imperial capital city?

Given the consequences were a lot of failure states for people new using the game, I think its far from a quibble, and the fact it was new does not change that. Like I said, a contrast with the handling of dungeons and the handling of wilderness seems pretty telling to me; the former was done with understanding the process would be new and needed some spelling out, and the latter wasn't. And that makes the latter sloppy and I'm not going to call it anything else.

I have to say, from the distance it really looks like you have a bone to pick and I don't find your critique convincing or compelling. We can agree to disagree though.

Suit yourself. I've expressed my opinion. If you want to disagree with it that's your choice, but I'm not requiredd to change it because you do, and your counterargument is not convincing to me so here we are.

 

[Thomas Shey]

For sure ... but then it doesn't tell you how to decide who goes first in the alternate combat system either ... there are plenty of gaps. I find it some3what forgivable in wilderness adventuring, if only because of the (awful) suggestion to use wilderness survival. The part that annoys me though about OD&Ds treatment of wilderness adventure is how the later editions grow from it and have never to my knowledge offered a system that feels like wilderness travel ... something with decent weather rules etc.

I understand your point, but I think I consider this a bit more of a critical failure because I think it could quite easily lead to some really unpleasant learning experiences for an inexperienced GM and players. It was not critically so in my particular case because of quirks of our habits (specifically the large party size) and because no one happened to decide to go poking in anything but the dungeon for the first few levels. Neither of those was a given; had everyone been wandering around with one character each and a single henchman (for mule maintenance) they could easily have stepped out of town into the hills and died one and all in a way they could functionally have done nothing about.

 

[conankeep]

We can agree to disagree though.

If you want to disagree with it that's your choice, but I'm not requiredd to change it because you do

Who says you are required to change your opinion? Like I literally just wrote "we can agree to disagree". Literally. I see this antagonism of yours as entirely unwarranted and as further evidence there is a bone to pick. It's not that it's hurting my feelings or anything, I'm just surprised.

good day and good luck

 

[Thomas Shey]

Who says you are required to change your opinion? Like I literally just wrote "we can agree to disagree". Literally. I see this antagonism of yours as entirely unwarranted and as further evidence there is a bone to pick. It's not that it's hurting my feelings or anything, I'm just surprised.

When you take the time out to tell someone both that you find their argument unconvincing followed by suggesting their argument is not in good faith, I'd suggest expecting a neutral to positive response is a reach. You could have just made your counter argument followed by the "agree to disagree" and dropped it, but that's not what you chose to do. So its a little rich being put out that I chose to respond in kind.

"

 

[conankeep]

...seriously?!
You really feel you are in the right to respond in an antagonistic way because someone didn't find your arguments convincing and dared to say it out loud after presenting counter arguments in a neutral way?
I have more to say but I don't think it's necessary so I'll stop here.

 

[Thomas Shey]

...seriously?!
You really feel you are in the right to respond in an antagonistic way because someone didn't find your arguments convincing and dared to say it out loud after presenting counter arguments in a neutral way?
I have more to say but I don't think it's necessary so I'll stop here.

No, I felt it was okay to respond in the tone I got. If you don't understand why those two were parallel, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mod Note:

@conankeep @Thomas Shey

Y’all are now bickering about how polite one should be while disagreeing with each other. Ironically, you’re setting an example of the exact opposite.

Howzabout just knocking it off? Thanks!