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Adventurer
My opinion on the subject: http://rpgcentric.com/?p=6
Has 4E D&D become deadlier than 3E?
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the Jester
Legend
I think that 4e is deadlier than 3e, just because a round or two of good luck can mean a lot more for the dm, because he's gonna have a lot more monsters that can capitalize on it. The increased durability of monsters helps some too.
I like that 4e is a little deadlier overall. I think low-level 3e monsters were sometimes deadlier vs. 1st-level pcs than they are now, though, because of lower hit points. Extend this up to about 2nd-3rd level, actually- but then, that is explicitly part of the 4e design intent: to improve low-level durability of pcs.
I think the balance they struck with 4e is great.
I like that 4e is a little deadlier overall. I think low-level 3e monsters were sometimes deadlier vs. 1st-level pcs than they are now, though, because of lower hit points. Extend this up to about 2nd-3rd level, actually- but then, that is explicitly part of the 4e design intent: to improve low-level durability of pcs.
I think the balance they struck with 4e is great.
Scribble
First Post
I don't think so. I think it's as deadly as before, but without as many of the Fine this round, dead the next moments.
In 4e it seems like if you're getting ready to go down, chances are you know it, and have tiem to get yourself out of the situation, or play the odds. (Like mid-level play in 3e.)
In 4e it seems like if you're getting ready to go down, chances are you know it, and have tiem to get yourself out of the situation, or play the odds. (Like mid-level play in 3e.)
From my limited experience with 4e - I agree.
In high level 3(and 3.5)e play PC's were often extraodinarily fragile. They could dish out the damage and knock the monsters down, but one unlucky roll and they were out or dead.
4e seems to have consciously cut down on this with an express effort to have less swinginess in combat and in high level play in general.
Scribble
First Post
I think things will even out as more people "relearn" how to fight...
I think a lot of players who've played other editions get a momentary "Woohoo I'm invincible!!!" feeling... Les "swinginess" though doesn't = invincible.
Also the standard "rush in and attack" isn't always the best option...
Ruin Explorer
Legend
Low-level 4E is deadlier than what I would say was the "typical" (hahaha) low-level late 3.5E game. From this and other boards, late in 3.5E, virtually everyone was giving people bonus HP at level one, either giving them a fixed bonus (often 10), or just giving then Con score HP or the like, where most 1HD monsters had such low base HP that they'd typically die in a single attack from the highly optimized attacks the same adventurers used.
However, that's not saying much. 4E is quite surprisingly dangerous, mostly due to the high HP totals and damage-dealing capabilities of the monsters, but it's not exactly some sort of shocking kill-fest unless you're dealing with a RBDM or extreme luck.
Of course, I've only see the game at low levels. I suspect it will kind of be more and less dangerous at mid and high levels. Less dangerous in that instant-death attacks will be nearly non-existent, rather than somewhat common, more dangerous in that monsters will be more numerous and seem to me to generally do more damage even relative to the new HP totals.
However, that's not saying much. 4E is quite surprisingly dangerous, mostly due to the high HP totals and damage-dealing capabilities of the monsters, but it's not exactly some sort of shocking kill-fest unless you're dealing with a RBDM or extreme luck.
Of course, I've only see the game at low levels. I suspect it will kind of be more and less dangerous at mid and high levels. Less dangerous in that instant-death attacks will be nearly non-existent, rather than somewhat common, more dangerous in that monsters will be more numerous and seem to me to generally do more damage even relative to the new HP totals.
Henry
Autoexreginated
In some ways, it's less deadly; in other ways, your character can still get REALLY screwed over, really quick. How, one might ask?
1) Falling damage does almost twice the damage it used to; in fact, THERE'S NO 20 DICE CAP like in previous editions of D&D. Characters, actually, have fewer hit points per level than their previous counterparts; 20th level characters with a 20 CON will have around 130 to 150 hit points, compared to clerics, rangers, fighters, barbarians, etc. who had normally 120 to 200 hit points or even higher at those levels.
2) Monsters even moreso than before have special abilities that make you do things you don't want to do, now - from sliding you into harm's way on a battlefield, to interposing your body as a shield versus OTHERs in your party, to even killing you and making you rise as an undead to fight your party.
3) Monsters still petrify you, disease you, disintegrate you, etc. -- but in two saves instead of one.
The biggest change is in hit points now -- monsters usually have to rip through your hit points now to destroy you in some fashion, instead of one-shot killing you. The other effects are a TWO-shot kill instead of a one-shot kill, to give you a "fair chance." So if one measures deadliness by one die roll standing between you and a raise dead, then yeah, they're largely removed that. But as far as deadliness is concerned, 4e generally instead of killing you makes you watch yourself die.
Instead of "the medusa kills you" it's "AHHH! The Kruthiks are ripping me to shreds! GET THEM OFF!!!
Instead of being a target of hold person and then your throat slit for instant death, it's "hold still, though your brains are on my hammer, I've got to hit you again.... oh, your skull broke? Sorry, I'll get you with the next hit"... until you hit that -bloodied value.
On the other hand, if you DON'T die, then it's ridiculously easy to heal up to full... but by only a few days compared to 3rd edition. A 3e fighter can heal up from -9 to completely healthy inside of something like 3 to 5 days without a stitch of magic, which a lot of people tend to forget.
Vayden
First Post
This.
In our 3.5 games, we tended to destroy all opposition without a shred of mercy, but the hapless opponents could still get off a lucky shot with a spell or ability and kill one of us. In 4E (partially due to lack of splat-book induced power-creep, partially due to system change), we're not at risk of the "whoops, you're dead" effect as much, but combats are much more dangerous, or at least feel much more dangerous so far.
