D&D 5E (2024) Has anyone played the new 2024 Banneret?

[UngeheuerLich]

It says magic items are a magic action though.

The exception rule is potions as a bonus action. And scrolls with a casting time thats a different action.

In any event it also explicitly say a thief can do it as a bonus action.

Its fairly clear RAW and RAI imho.

No. It does not say that. It says any magic item that requires a magic action to use a magic item.

 

[Zardnaar]

No. It does not say that. It says any magic item that requires a magic action to use a magic item.

Page 15 magic action.
Rogues can do it as a bonus action 137.

Scrolls are a magic item last I looked.

Rogues cant use most scrolls though until 13th.

A thief doesnt get much use out of a scroll of healing word.

Are you claiming a scroll isnt a magic item?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Page 15 magic action.
Rogues can do it as a bonus action 137.

Scrolls are a magic item last I looked.

Rogues cant use most scrolls though until 13th.

A thief doesnt get much use out of a scroll of healing word.

Are you claiming a scroll isnt a magic item?

No. Neither do I deny that rogues can use a bonus actions for items that require a magic action to use
But using a scroll does not take an action strictly by RAW. Casting the spell does.

I can't say however what RAI is.

 

[ECMO3]

Casting the spell does.

Which you do when you use the Scroll and which is spelled out as "using" it explicitly.

Also if this is your interpretation how can anyone use any scroll at all? If my Wizard makes a scroll of Thunderwave, how does he use that scroll in combat?

If the Magic action is for casting the spell, but not for using the scroll then how in the heck does my Wizard use the scroll when his turn comes around?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Which you do when you use the Scroll and which is spelled out as "using" it explicitly.

Also if this is your interpretation how can anyone use any scroll at all? If my Wizard makes a scroll of Thunderwave, how does he use that scroll in combat?

If the Magic action is for casting the spell, but not for using the scroll then how in the heck does my Wizard use the scroll when his turn comes around?

Reading it. As said in the description... D'oh.

 

[Zardnaar]

Reading it. As said in the description... D'oh.

That seems mostly fluff tbh.

Scrolls are magic items.

You use a magic action yo use one.

Thieves can use a bons action.

Scrolls casting one thats a bonus action doesn't change rogue ability.

If I got a rogue to lvl 13 and DM made your ruling I would probably leave the game. DMs not logged to give you items to use but rules are clear.

Seems clear enough.

1. Are Scrolls a magic item? Yes.

2. Uses a magic action and/or spells casting time. Not clear there but irrelevant.

3. Thief can bonus action the magic action. Doesn't matter if the spell is already a bonus action (no effect essentially) or reaction the scroll rules an exception to page 15. Just like the scroll rules about casting time.

More interested if a thief/anyone wjo can use a scrollcan use shield spell on a scroll

 

[ECMO3]

Reading it. As said in the description... D'oh.

But there is no Read a scroll action, further this would require 2 actions if they need to take a Read a scroll action and then a different action, the Magic action, to cast the spell, and it does clearly require the Magic action to cast the spell.

Do they take the Utilize action one turn and then the Magic action the next turn, or just take the Utilize action and then the Magic action automatically happens?

Also what happens when they do this off turn with say the Shield spell?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

As I said. Nothing you say is relevant to my point. Bye.

 

[Pauln6]

A Spell Scroll is essentially a spell slot wrapped in paper. It does not add an extra layer of item-use math to combat. You simply look at the spell written on the scroll, and whatever that spell’s default casting time is (Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction), that is exactly what it costs you to cast it.

I don't think meta magic applies to scrolls either, since the magic isn't innate.

Also, the notion that you could use your Bonus Action for 10 rounds to cast a spell that takes a minute is silly. You can't do anything else until the spell is cast without interrupting the spell.

 

[Pauln6]

So, back to banneret, maybe the best feature swap would be:

Level 3: Knightly Envoy: You can cast Comprehend Languages as a ritual (using Charisma), swap one known language at the end of a long rest, and gain proficiency in two skills from: Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, or Performance. One of those skills gets Expertise (doubled proficiency bonus).

Remove expertise in a skill and replace with:

Tactical Superiority: You learn either the Commanding Presence or Tactical Assessment Manoeuvre plus one other combat manoeuvre from the following: Bait and Switch, Commander's Strike, Commanding Presence, Maneuvering Attack, Rally, and Tactical Assessment. You gain two d6 Superiority Dice that recharge on a Short or Long Rest. At level 7, you gain a third 1d6 superiority die and can learn a third Combat Manoeuvre from the above list.

It feels like banneret's abilities, while flavourful, may be a bit limited. Use of group recovery doesn't even increase as your use of second wind increases. It's still just once per short rest. Is it really so good that it had to be that limited?

I just feel that Superiority dice, which can be padded with feats to cover everything on that list, would at least give a bit of warlord versatility.