Has D&D become less about the adventure?

[Henry]

I'm coming to understand how important a wargaming background was to making the most of the 1e rules.

Age has a lot to do with it, too. Of the people who came to it through wargaming, most were in their late teens/early twenties or older at the time, and so many rules were implied through the "unspoken code of wargamers" (the one that says, if it doesn't work, HACK IT TO FIT!) For those coming to it from other backgrounds, there was a lot missing, like trying to watch a 3D movie without the 3D glasses.

 

[diaglo]

Seeten, I appreciate that you may have played the game with dungeon masters who believed that only what was written on the page could or could not be done, however, that runs contrary to both the spirit and the letter of the 1e AD&D rules. That you played with poor players doesn't make the game bad.

QFT


my problem with 1edADnD stems from the amount of power creep that began with Supplement I Greyhawk.. also written by Gary for his powergaming scions.

suddenly fighting men ...now fighters have d10 hps.
they do extra attacks.

and armor class drops into the negatives... which is totally contrary to weapon vs armor type

don't even get me started on the UA era and beyond.

follow the yellow brick road and grab your lollipop and join the guild.

 

[diaglo]

You use 1st edition. Ergo, you don't count.

Wow. Not only is that rude, it's untrue on a couple of levels:

- He's playing 3.5e
- If he wasn't playing 3.5, he'd be playing OD&D, not 1e
- Even if the game he's referring to was OD&D, it would still be relevant to the conversation.

Be nice, folks, and if you can't be nice at least be polite.

what Kevin said.

it was the newest edition since i was a player in the game.

 

[The Shaman]

Age has a lot to do with it, too. Of the people who came to it through wargaming, most were in their late teens/early twenties or older at the time...

Ouch! No need to make me feel older than I already to, Henry!

For the record, I started minis wargaming at ten and D&D at twelve.

...and so many rules were implied through the "unspoken code of wargamers" (the one that says, if it doesn't work, HACK IT TO FIT!) For those coming to it from other backgrounds, there was a lot missing, like trying to watch a 3D movie without the 3D glasses.

It's system mastery, as Monte Cook described as a goal for 3e.

 

[Seeten]

Problem was different gamers hacked it differently, so in some peoples games, I could swashbuckle, in some I could only buckle, and in some, I was Bob.

 

[Phoenix]

No. D&D Online is hardly representive or regular D&D; and my experiences with Living Greyhawk have it levelling slower than base D&D 3e and the storyline (esp. in regional adventures) being very important.

Admittedly though, Living Greyhawk is about as interesting as a wet fish. Really, if i wanted to gain XP at an extrodinarily low rate while 'adventuring'* in some of the worst storylines and interpretation of setting possible, wasting hours of my day, I'd...hang on, I wouldn't.

Really, Living Greyhawk's fascination with keeping PCs at low levels is ridiculous. It seems more intent on slowing progress than rewarding any good playing whatsoever. Oh yes, please reply with the whole 'it is what you make it'.

I like Greyhawk, though I am not Gygaxian or of the New Guard. I enjoy it for what it is, fun. Living Greyhawk is a punishment, not a reward, for the gamers out there that want more out of their game.

Wow, this turned into a rant fast...

* I can only show sarcasm this way, blame the written word.

 

[buzz]

Problem was different gamers hacked it differently, so in some peoples games, I could swashbuckle, in some I could only buckle, and in some, I was Bob.

I daresay that this sums up "talking about D&D" really well. I hereby dub it the Seeten Principle.

 

[Emirikol]

Really, Living Greyhawk's fascination with keeping PCs at low levels is ridiculous. It seems more intent on slowing progress than rewarding any good playing whatsoever. Oh yes, please reply with the whole 'it is what you make it'.

I never was for that either. It's some kind of convoluted way to prevent chracter retirement with the THEORY that PC's who are played longer may cause players to somehow become better role-players. All it really does is give them a longer period in which to obtain stupid amounts of loot. Every character is a walking magic shop. They may not be carring the plus 7 sword of the Ysgardians, but they have just about everything else.

..perhaps that's why there are 14,000 active players. Loot with the illusion that the slow level advancement "feels" like faster level advancement.

Again, it must be what many players desire. The number of pages in the "Living Greyhawk Camaign Sourcebook" however are testament to the giant band-aid that sits on the campaign. When you need *that* many house rules, there's something wrong.

Don't get me started with Greyhawk content. Whoever the writers are might want to READ something about Greyhawk before writing a scenario just to give away some more pet items to a friend who lives in your region "who always wanted item X"..the last fun bit I had was finding out that a whole series of scenarios had the NYR DYV being a warm saltwater sea with sharks and sauhagin with an unusually unrelated set of magical items available for purchase.

Again, players evidently enjoyed it and got whatever experience and items they felt was deserved of them. I actually enjoyed running one of them..that's what worries me...

jh
Ex- just trying to find out if DMing it is still fun..or ever was...

 

[diaglo]

Really, Living Greyhawk's fascination with keeping PCs at low levels is ridiculous. It seems more intent on slowing progress than rewarding any good playing whatsoever. Oh yes, please reply with the whole 'it is what you make it'.

this is a problem with any of the Living systems.

not everyone can go to every event.

so the guy who goes once every other month.... 6 adventures in a year. may be level 5 by the end.

while the guy who goes once a year is only lvl 2.

how many are in the first group? the second?

so if some d00d goes to every event and games he is like level 8 or so say... he can't game with anyone else cuz no one else is putting in the time. plus just b/c he has gone to every event he has GAWD like lvls and stuff in comparison to the once a year gamer.

Living is hard to do unless you really have a group willing to let in n00bs and keep the elitist guys happy with a challenge of their own too.

see Evercrack or WoW or other online games for the same reasons why these things often get booring or ennui. kill someone with your fishing pole sometime online.

 

[Henry]

Problem was different gamers hacked it differently, so in some peoples games, I could swashbuckle, in some I could only buckle, and in some, I was Bob.

And to follow buzz, if I could somehow make that a coherent stand-alone .sig, I'd be using it right now.