D&D 5E (2014) Help me change how the identify spell works

[Sword of Spirit]

Ever since 5e started, I haven't liked the way you can identify magic items just by playing with them for an hour, or casting an identify as a 10 minute ritual with no other cost.

This has been my house rule for years:
"An Intelligence (Arcana) check, detect magic, or other means is necessary to discover that an item is magical.
Focusing on an item [ie, during a short rest] won’t reveal its properties. The identify spell reveals one reliable hint to a magic item’s properties, and experimentation or Intelligence (Arcana) checks can provide additional hints. Attuning to an item grants even more insight.
Wielding or attuning to a charged item allows a character to sense how many charges it has remaining."

I'm not totally satisfied with this rule. While it accomplishes the original goal, it ends up with characters having items for years with vague descriptions of what they do, and little recourse to finally figure the item out other than time in an arcane library and a bunch of Arcana checks, which isn't the precise goal I was going for. As characters rise from low to mid (and eventually high) level, the issues should be minimized and they should just be able to know what items are if they are something standard, and if it's a unique item or a standard item with extra properties tacked on, they ought to know that is the case and what sorts of reasonable time and/or other resources can be used to determine them.

Basically, I want the results to look something like:

Skill Checks & Attunement: Anywhere from a hint about a property, to figuring out exactly what an item does (including that its cursed) with something to go on and a high enough check. The big downside is that this isn't reliable, because you could be mistaken.

Low Level Magic: Reliably determine basic item properties (+X weapon/armor, item that casts a single spell (hat of disguise) with little cost except time. Probably identify minor properties from the DMG tables and common magic items (which are essentially items that only have minor properties). Know if there is more going on with an item so you know that you'll need to devote more resources to determine the rest. Can't tell if an item is cursed, or that it's an artifact (but you know it's complicated enough that you can't determine what it's properties are). I assume a party has access to both detect magic and identify, so that is what this primarily takes into account.

Mid Level Magic: Spend resources to determine exactly what an item does, unless it's an artifact. Probably identify the nature of most (maybe all) curses).

High Level Characters: Be able to figure out just about anything through a combination of Legend & Lore and research.

I'm considering changing the identify spell so that you gain less info from it at 1st level and as a ritual, but gain more from it with a higher level spell slot and by consuming the component. Re-writing identify might get me most of the way there.

How would you go about achieving the goals I have?

 

[DragonLancer]

I certainly agree about a short rest suddenly revealing everything about an item. It bugs me too. Identify never a problem mainly because of the short rest element no player of mine (in either current campaign) has ever bothered with it.

Out of curiosity though, what is your personal issue with the Identify spell? Just too easy or something else?

 

[billd91]

The difficulty and expense of identifying magic items was one of the elements of AD&D 1e that I absolutely hated. Simplifying it has been, as far as I'm concerned, a vast improvement and I don't see why anyone would really want the issue of vaguely understood magic items, outside of cryptic artifacts or relics, to linger.
But, if I wanted to offer a trade-off between PCs hastily identifying items in the field and risking possibly attuning to a cursed item or something otherwise not that helpful, I'd go with your initial identify spell. But then I'd want to get them off that uncertainty as soon as is reasonably possible and allow them to more fully ID an item as a downtime option between adventures. Then, they have to pay some form of lip service to having put effort into it and it won't linger for years.

 

[Deset Gled]

I'm considering changing the identify spell so that you gain less info from it at 1st level and as a ritual, but gain more from it with a higher level spell slot and by consuming the component.

Consuming the pearl is a tactic I have used before, and IMNSHO it works pretty well.

The caveat, of course, is that you also have to be in the kind of game that tracks resources. Make sure players remove one each time the spell is cast, obviously. But also, shops will have a limited number of pearls. Pearls may be requested in trade for other things (both by the players, and of the players). There's a pearl economy. Pearls are a notable part of treasure. And on the fun side, players may get a bonus pearl in an unexpected place, like from a necklace worn by a noble they just saved.

When that's done properly, I don't think most of the other rewriting is necessary. But if you want to get really into it, you could remove the option to cast it as a ritual. Then, say that a 1st level casting identifies 1 magic thing on an item, and a higher level cast identifies 2 extra things per level (cast as a level 2 identifies 3 things, etc.). But, to avoid being a true RBDM, make sure to let them know when they've identified all the things they can.

 

[Tonguez]

I'd just make the different approaches give different information:

Detect Magic gives Magic and School only eg the weapon radiates strong elemental magic
Identify gives artifact function eg The weapon is imbued with a tongue of elemental flame and can be ignited with a command (consumes Pearl - the command word is: Flametongue and requires a bonus action to activate.
Higher slot - the flame causes 2d6 damage and sheds 40ft of bright light)
Attunement grants operational knowledge eg You have attuned to the weapon, learning how to activate its tongue of elemental flame
Arcana - gives extra bits or Lore
DC 10 The Weapon was forged by Fire Giants in the heart of the Craghorn Volcanoes
DC 15 but he was known to protect them with a powerful curse
DC 20 The WeaponSmith of Craghorn embeded many secondary commands within his creations (DM Note: go to the Library for more research)
DC 25 The curse can be removed if the blade is washed in the blood of a Craghorn giant

 

[Rabbitbait]

It's always been a tension for me. I like magic items to feel mysterious and special, and so knowing exactly what they do straight away turns them into a tool. However, having to go to an effort to find out what they do means that often the items never get used, and I want them to be used.

I think possibly the problem is in the design of magic items themselves. Maybe items should have varying levels of magic depending on how much you attune to them and how much you understand them. So a +1 sword might be just that if you do no study, but if you cast identify, that will give you clues that you can use to study the history of the sword which then unlocks the other abilities you can attune to.

Possibly magic items should be impacted by the class and personality of the user, so a +1 sword could potentially be a flame blade or an ice blade or improve saving throws depending on the person that wields it. Should magic be a bit unpredictable like that?

But that would require a complete redesign of how magic items work for D&D.

 

[Whisper-Kitten]

I mean I just let my players make an arcana roll to find out.

 

[Stormonu]

I've had the struggle with identifying magic items from both sides (though mostly DM). This is pretty much how I handle it:

Detect magic reveals that the item is magic, and what school of magic it is aligned with.

Items that have obvious, continuous effects don't need an identify (Longsword +1, Armor +1, Bracers of Defense +1, etc.). These properties are revealed when they come into play, or if detect magic has been cast on the item (or a successful Arcana check, DC 5 + (5 x rarity tier)) and a Short/Long rest has been used to examine the item. Using a short rest to examine a magic item precludes activating/using other "during a Short rest" abilities (such as the Warlock refreshing his spells, or a Battlemaster getting Maneuver points back).

Items that have a command word or secondary function may require an identify spell to discover if not somehow already known (like the command word being written on a wand's haft). Also, identify can be used to discern the nature of potions without testing them by sampling. Also identifies any curses or quirks associated with the item that aren't obvious.

Identify combined with the Arcana skill can also be used to unearth background information (if relevant) about the item if its properties are known - DC as above, 5 + (5 x rarity tier). Legend Lore and more powerful spells give a bonus/advantage to the Arcana checks to identify an items past.

 

[Lanefan]

Active field testing should often be able to give some results (e.g. do these boots help me run faster or does holding my hand over this candle flame still hurt) and parties should be doing a lot more of this; even more so given that cursed items really aren't much of a concern any more.

Identify is for when field-testing finds nothing or is not recommended (are you going to volunteer to see if this is a ring of water breathing? No? Thought not...) and-or to fine-tune the field-test results (e.g. just how much benefit are there bracers of defense providing). Identify can be field-castable but IMO should carry a cost.

Other than intelligent items that can actually tell you what they do, just passively sitting with an item even for a long time shouldn't give any information as to its properties (I've never been a fan of attunement in any form).

 

[Shiroiken]

If you want to make it both meaningful and difficult, Identify should take 8 hours to cast, and not be a ritual. It reveals 1 property per spell level spent, so that higher level slots will be required for more intricate items. You can also consume the pearl, like it was done in earlier editions, so that a cost is involved.

Of course, if you make the spell harder to use, you'll obviously need to make non-magical identification harder too. I would recommending making it a downtime activity, with an Int/Arcana check to reveal new information (DC could be based on rarity). I also suggest that this process attunes the character to the item, because that's realistically the only way to test it (I require this in my games).