Help me understanding the current rule regarding immunity

[Shin Okada]

According to Official Update (UpdateJan2010.pdf),

The following paragraph in PHB P.55

Resistance or immunity to one keyword of a power does not protect a target from the power's other effects. When damage of a power is described as more than one type, divide the damage evenly between the damage types (round up for the first damage type, round down for all others). For example, a power that deals 25 fire and thunder damage deals 13 fire damage and 12 thunder damage.

Is revised to

Keywords
Page 55: Replace the fourth paragraph with the following text.

Resistance or immunity to one keyword of a power does not protect a target from the power's other effects. Also, resistance doesn't reduce damage unless the target has resistance to each type of damage from the attack, and then only the weakest of the resistances applies. For example, a character who has resist 10 lightning and resist 5 thunder who takes 15 lightning and thunder damage takes 10 damage because the resistance value to the combined damage types is limited by the lesser of the two resistances.

Also, MM part of the same update changed this paragraph

Some powers deal damage that combines two or more damage types. The target must have resistance or immunity to all the specified damage types to reduce or ignore all the damage.

to

Effect
Page 7: Replace the third paragraph with the following
text.
Some powers deal damage that combines two or more damage types. Resistance doesn't reduce damage unless the target has resistance to each type of damage from the attack, and then only the weakest of the resistances applies.

So, in my understanding, under the current rule,

#Immunity is effective against damages or effect with 2 or more types.

For example, Ice Devil is immune to Cold. Assume a warden with a Flaming weapon used the weapon's at-will power and used Winter's Grip power, hit the devil and inflicted 20 Cold and Fire damage to the devil. In this case, the devil's immunity negates the damage entirely.

Is it right?


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And, I am not sure about non-damaging effect and immunity.

The above-mentioned paragraph in PHB, even the revised one, says

Resistance or immunity to one keyword of a power does not protect a target from the power's other effects.

But MM P.282 says

Immune: The monster has immunity to the stated kind of damage or effect. For example, a monster with “immune poison” never takes poison damage and can't suffer any other ill effect from a poison attack.

And this paragraph in MM is not revised yet.

Which is correct?

 

[UltimaGabe]

For example, Ice Devil is immune to Cold. Assume a warden with a Flaming weapon used the weapon's at-will power and used Winter's Grip power, hit the devil and inflicted 20 Cold and Fire damage to the devil. In this case, the devil's immunity negates the damage entirely.

Is it right?

No. Someone with Resist 10 Thunder and Resist 5 Lightning hit for 15 Thunder and Lightning damage takes 10 damage because he has resistances to both (if he had resistance to only one, he would take the full damage, and since he has resistance to both, he only uses the lesser one). If something is immune to cold, and takes Fire and Cold damage, he takes full damage, because he doesn't have resistance or immunity to both. If he had Immunity to Cold, and Resist Fire 5, he'd take off 5 damage, because you only use the lesser. (In the case you mentioned, though, you could still say he only used the lesser, but in that case, the lesser is Resist 0.)

 

[Shin Okada]

No. Someone with Resist 10 Thunder and Resist 5 Lightning hit for 15 Thunder and Lightning damage takes 10 damage because he has resistances to both (if he had resistance to only one, he would take the full damage, and since he has resistance to both, he only uses the lesser one). If something is immune to cold, and takes Fire and Cold damage, he takes full damage, because he doesn't have resistance or immunity to both. If he had Immunity to Cold, and Resist Fire 5, he'd take off 5 damage, because you only use the lesser. (In the case you mentioned, though, you could still say he only used the lesser, but in that case, the lesser is Resist 0.)

In case of resistance, that is true and obvious.

But WotC has removed the mentioning about "immunity" from the texts which describe how damage with multiple types work.

If immunity is still treated just like resistance, why did they remove "immunity"?

Am I missing something?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

In case of resistance, that is true and obvious.

But WotC has removed the mentioning about "immunity" from the texts which describe how damage with multiple types work.

If immunity is still treated just like resistance, why did they remove "immunity"?

Am I missing something?

Read the second quote (the errata for the PHB text) again, it says "resistance or immunity" which implies immunity works just like resistance and you must have immunity to all damage type keywords to be fully protected.

The MM text doesn't mention immunity anymore but that doesn't matter since the PHB does and monsters follow those rules by default.

Now, one could argue about whether Ultimagabe's example is the only way to interpret combinations of immunity and resistance but personally I think the way he's explained it is the best way to do it. You're likely to find various interpretations by different DMs.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, let's actually work with the current definition for immunity, k?

It:

1) Prevents damage of that type, or the mentioned condition, or a specific effect completely.

Yes, if you have fire and lightning damage hit you while you have immunity to fire, you take zero damage.

Immunity is not resistance.

2) Immunity to Gaze makes you completely immune to Gaze powers.

3) Immunity to certain specific keywords (Illusion, Polymorph, Poison, Sleep, and Charm off the top of my head, could be others) grants you immunity to non-damaging effects of those powers.

That's from the MM2.

 

[Shin Okada]

3) Immunity to certain specific keywords (Illusion, Polymorph, Poison, Sleep, and Charm off the top of my head, could be others) grants you immunity to non-damaging effects of those powers.

That's from the MM2.

Ah! So, regarding non-damaging effects, MM2 tramples both PHB and MM.

 

[DracoSuave]

Ah! So, regarding non-damaging effects, MM2 tramples both PHB and MM.

Yeah, Immunity's very specific now, as opposed to 'Foo don't affect you' which it was before.

 

[DracoSuave]

Ah! So, regarding non-damaging effects, MM2 tramples both PHB and MM.

Yeah, Immunity's very specific now, as opposed to 'Foo don't affect you' which it was before.

 

[eriktheguy]

So wait, immunity to fire negates cold/fire damage and effects from that attack?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

So wait, immunity to fire negates cold/fire damage and effects from that attack?

Except we are talking about damaging effects of those powers. Keywords and damage types aren't QUITE the same thing. In fact the MM2 text really isn't very specific at all. It states that if you are immune to a damage type, condition, or 'specific effect' then you're not affected by it. Presumably that would mean for a damage type that you'd take no damage. It doesn't say ANYTHING about damage of multiple types at all.

So in the case of damage and damage types MM2 has nothing to say about the interaction of immunity and multiple damage types.