Help: Roleplaying in Skill Challenges

[eriktheguy]

I'm having trouble getting roleplaying into my skill challenges. Before 3rd edition my players generally only used skills when I forced a roleplaying situation on them. In 4th skill challenges seem like a good way to encourage RPing.
I'm using Stalker0s skill challenge system, so input from others using the same system is welcome.
For those that don't know, Stalker0's system fixes some major math issues, and forces every player to attempt to earn successes rather than using 'aid another'. Also the result of the challenge is dependent on the number of successes earned in a fixed amount of time, there is no maximum number of failures.
Here are some problems.
1: When players use the 'main skills' for the challenge, do they still need to describe an action? Or do they only need to describe when they try something different? If they are hiking with nature or talking with diplomacy, can they simply say "I naturate the wilderness" or "I diplomatize the guard". How does everyone else run this?
2: If the player describes an action whose success or failure would seem to have a serious effect on the encounter, how do I react? Example, the players are sneaking into a building and one tries to pickpocket a guard for the key. The player is caught. Does the challenge end in failure? Do they have to deal with this issue before they can proceed? Or do I just count this as another failed check? Similarly sometimes a player suggests an action that seems like it would make the party succeed at the challenge immediately and then rolls a success. How do you react?

 

[ValhallaGH]

If a given action would automatically result in total success (or failure) then it shouldn't be resolved with one die roll.

Example: I pick-pocket a key to help break into the fortress. Failure: Unless you, the DM, want to end the Skill Challenge immediately, this is not a "got caught" situation; this is a "no good opportunity" situation, or a "the jerk guard didn't have the key on him" situation. Think of unsuccessful results that don't automatically alter the nature of the encounter.

Example: The party tries to break into the fortress, and decide to steal a key from one of the guard patrols in town to help them. This is a separate challenge (steal the key) that is a subset of a larger challenge (enter the fortress); success on the sub-challenge should count as several successes towards the larger challenge.
So, now they are on the Steal the Key challenge, where they must locate a guard, sneak up on the guard, steal the key, and escape the guard. One of the players decides to give the guard a glass of wine, laced with a knock-out drug; the player makes a Deception check and an attack against the guard's Fortitude, each a separate success that counts towards "sneak up" and "escape" respectively. Now they have to be lucky enough to have gotten a guard that has a key, and that it is where they can find it (good luck with the Perception or Thievery checks).
Once they complete the Steal the Key challenge, note the success or failure of the challenge. Success contributes 3 successes to the Enter the Keep challenge. Failure removes 5 time units from the Enter the Keep challenge, with no successes added.


Did that help?

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

1: When players use the 'main skills' for the challenge, do they still need to describe an action? Or do they only need to describe when they try something different? If they are hiking with nature or talking with diplomacy, can they simply say "I naturate the wilderness" or "I diplomatize the guard". How does everyone else run this?

Generally, when a player says, "I use X skill." The DM is allowed to ask, "How?"

The idea is not to punish uncreative players, but to promote role-playing. Don't be too hard on players who are not silver-tongued devils, or those who don't know the difference between an elm and a spruce tree. If you bring too much real world, "that'll never work," the players will never try anything risky again.

Requiring a player to say, "I look for an animal path," or "I talk to the guard about his children," should not be onerous to most players. And it just might open further fun.

It's the dice that decide how well they do the thing they want to do.

2: If the player describes an action whose success or failure would seem to have a serious effect on the encounter, how do I react? Example, the players are sneaking into a building and one tries to pickpocket a guard for the key. The player is caught. Does the challenge end in failure? Do they have to deal with this issue before they can proceed? Or do I just count this as another failed check?

Here's where the DM's judgment is allowed to come into play. Can you narrate some way in which the failure is not a complete end to the attempt? The attempt is actually successful, but the guard doesn't have a key? The player actually never could get close enough to the guard? The player pick-pocketed the wrong ring of keys?

Try to avoid stating any individual failures as things that close down the attempt completely... at least until the end. The early failures should be, "Your characters' actions are making things harder."

Similarly sometimes a player suggests an action that seems like it would make the party succeed at the challenge immediately and then rolls a success. How do you react?

Again, this is where DM judgment is key and no written rule can help. Can you honestly see a way in which the skill challenge can continue? If so, give them their success, and maybe reward them with another bonus success.

But if their idea appears to be effective and successful and ends the challange, accept it. Maybe not give them full XP since they didn't risk as much... or give them full XP since the challenge is overcome.

Be fair, consider their idea from several angles, and then make what you believe to be the best call. A fair, open-minded DM willing to give players some easy victories and making them work for others is probably more important than coming up with a hard rule.

 

[eriktheguy]

Thanks guys, all this advice is helpful. I think I have a fairly good idea how I can run things. Players that have fairly good ideas might gain bonus successes, or give bonuses to some other players checks (rather than straight out winning the encounter). I'll try to avoid situations where a failed check actually gives penalties or loses successes (failing the check is penalty enough). I'll see how this goes.